In this episode, Katie talks with CRR co-founder Faith Fuller about the recent release of her new book, ‘Relationship Matters: A New Paradigm for an Evolutionary Leap in Relationship.’ Relationship Matters is now available to purchase online from Amazon, and there are hardback, paper cover and Kindle editions available. An audiobook version is coming soon.
From family and friends, to romantic partners, professional interactions, and community connections, relationships are an integral part of life. Just as our heart pumps blood throughout our physical bodies to keep us alive, relationships are the lifeblood that helps keep our social and emotional worlds going.
Despite the importance of relationships, many of us struggle when it comes to creating healthy and meaningful ones. We are incredibly advanced in science, technology, and medicine – yet when it comes to getting along with others we struggle.
Fortunately, there is a better way to approach any relationship in life—and Relationship Matters will show you how. First, you will learn that relationships operate as interdependent, interactive systems. In fact, in any relationship at any level, there is a relationship between the two parties – known as the “third entity” – that is greater and more powerful than the separate individuals in that system. No matter how close or distant a relationship may be, the third entity is always present and available for you to tap into, with its reservoir of deep wisdom. In Relationship Matters, Faith Fuller reveals the universal principles that underpin all relationship systems, which will ultimately help you:
Relationships aren’t something you “do” in your spare time – they are embedded in everything you do! By understanding these relationship systems, you will finally be able to cultivate positive, healthy relationships within yourself and with those closest to you, while contributing to the evolution of relationships on a global level…because all relationships matter.
Faith Fuller is co-founder and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach, with over 20 years of experience in working with organizations, couples and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed in order for effective change to occur. Her particular skill is empowering powerful, productive and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships and teams . She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution and community crisis intervention.
For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time
We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.
In this episode, Katie talks with CRR co-founder Faith Fuller about the recent release of her new book, ‘Relationship Matters: A New Paradigm for an Evolutionary Leap in Relationship.’ Relationship Matters is now available to purchase online from Amazon, and there are hardback, paper cover and Kindle editions available. An audiobook version is coming soon.
From family and friends, to romantic partners, professional interactions, and community connections, relationships are an integral part of life. Just as our heart pumps blood throughout our physical bodies to keep us alive, relationships are the lifeblood that helps keep our social and emotional worlds going.
Despite the importance of relationships, many of us struggle when it comes to creating healthy and meaningful ones. We are incredibly advanced in science, technology, and medicine – yet when it comes to getting along with others we struggle.
Fortunately, there is a better way to approach any relationship in life—and Relationship Matters will show you how. First, you will learn that relationships operate as interdependent, interactive systems. In fact, in any relationship at any level, there is a relationship between the two parties – known as the “third entity” – that is greater and more powerful than the separate individuals in that system. No matter how close or distant a relationship may be, the third entity is always present and available for you to tap into, with its reservoir of deep wisdom. In Relationship Matters, Faith Fuller reveals the universal principles that underpin all relationship systems, which will ultimately help you:
Relationships aren’t something you “do” in your spare time – they are embedded in everything you do! By understanding these relationship systems, you will finally be able to cultivate positive, healthy relationships within yourself and with those closest to you, while contributing to the evolution of relationships on a global level…because all relationships matter.
Faith Fuller is co-founder and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach, with over 20 years of experience in working with organizations, couples and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed in order for effective change to occur. Her particular skill is empowering powerful, productive and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships and teams . She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution and community crisis intervention.
For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time
We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.
Key
KC – Katie Chapman
FF – Faith Fuller
[Intro 00:00 – 00:06]
KC - Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. We believe relationship matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole. I'm your host, Katie Churchman, and in this special bonus episode, we're celebrating the launch of CRR Global co-founder Faith Fuller’s book Relationship Matters: A New Paradigm for an Evolutionary Leap in Relationship. Across this conversation, we discuss, why this book and why now. The righting process and how it has evolved; the model behind the book; what is a relationship system; practical applications of the book and the importance of storytelling and bringing ORSC to life. From family and friends to romantic partners, professional interactions and community connections, relationships are an integral part of life. Just as our heart pumps blood throughout our physical bodies to keep us alive, relationships are the lifeblood that helps keep our social and emotional worlds going. Despite the importance of relationships, many of us struggle when it comes to creating healthy and meaningful ones. We are incredibly advanced in science, technology and medicine, yet when it comes to getting along with others, we struggle. Fortunately, there is a better way to approach any relationship in life and in Faith’s book Relationship Matters you will learn how. First, you will learn that relationships operate as interdependent interactive systems. In fact, in any relationship at any level, there is a relationship between the two parties known as the third entity that is greater and more powerful than the separate individuals in that system. No matter how close or distant a relationship may be, the third entity is always present and available for you to tap into with its reservoir of deep wisdom. So, without further ado, I bring you CRR Global co-founder Faith Fuller, talking about her book, Relationship Matters: A New Paradigm for an Evolutionary Leap in Relationship.
KC - Hi Faith. Welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. I'm always so delighted to have you on the show.
FF - I'm delighted to be here, and especially on this topic of completing a book.
KC - Well, firstly, congratulations, Faith. How are you feeling after completing a book?
FF - A lot of things. First of all, a book is a relationship, no question about it. I've been keeping close company with the book as an entity, so to speak. I started this book, I think you and I said it was three years ago and a lot has happened in there. I got a diagnosis, we sold the company, we moved – a lot of stuff has happened in those three years. I think the book basically told me what to write, in some ways, and it's right here keeping me company now, it's a living thing in my life and I'm happy to send it out into the world. It's finally old enough to leave home.
KC - I remember early on in the process you were nervous because you had… I think you described it as a graveyard of books that hadn't been finished. So, how does it feel to finally be at the finish line?
DD - Yeah, it's true. I think I had four failed books before this, for lots of different reasons. So, I had absolutely no confidence in the ability to actually finish something. That's why I really needed to lean into you who helped me through the whole process as I was leaning into the book. So the sense of ‘oh my God, it's actually done’, I'm still absorbing. There's so much to do when you're finishing a book. So, I'm still absorbing it. I'm happy. I'm a little bit sad that it's done. I feel like I don't even remember everything that's in it. There's a lot of feelings about it! But proud to present it to the world.
KC - Yeah, to finally gift this out to the world! I remember, early on we did a third entity exercise with the book, and you asked: ‘what does the book want to say?’ I remember a big part of that was the relationship with the audience, with the readership. I wonder how that lives for you now, given that you're at that point where you're about to share it out to the world?
FF - Yeah, that's a great question. One of the big premises of the book that I wanted to get out there is everything is relationship. How molecules and atoms come together is repulsion, attraction or neutral. The galaxies that swing around them are connected by gravity. Everything is relationship. So, it was important for me to feel like the readers were in relationship with the book, in relationship through the book with me, so that I could get that across in a very visceral way. So, the book is meant to bring the reader into relationship with relationship systems.
KC - And I think there was so much relationship involved in this book. I adored our relationship during this process, and I think its relationship will evolve and change as people start to pick it up and read it in their own systems; family, professional systems, and so it'll be interesting to see how the ripple effect lives on.
FF - Yeah. And if I had one great wish, it would be that people engage with it. I hope it's not going to be like watching a movie, to change analogies, where it's separate from you and out there. I really hope people grapple with the book. Find things they love, things that irritate them, apply it to their own relationships. In fact, the book is designed to encourage people. There are exercises through it for people to apply what they're learning. But I very much hope that people do grapple with the book in a personal way because the whole point of the book is evolution through relationship and caddy ball without connectedness to thinking about your relationships, becoming aware of them and applying what you learn to being better at them.
KC – That’s always struck me as such a curious and wonderful approach that you've had to this, because in many ways it makes sense, of course a book's a dialogue. But I don't think many of us attack writing in that way. We often come at it with a sort of one-way street mindset and you wanted this to be a conversation.
FF - Yeah, I wanted the media that I used, the book, to represent the thing that we want which is a sense of connection, a sense of belonging with the topic that is being discussed. You can't do that without going into direct relationship with the book itself and letting it inform you, having that dialogue, letting it affect you - all those different things. So, I hope that when people read it they let it in as a relationship.
KC – So, what I know about this book is that it really is for everyone. Everyone who's in relationship, which is everyone and anyone. It's both for coaches, for people on the street, for parents, for leaders. I guess what I want to ask you, Faith, is why do you feel this book is so relevant now?
FF – Well, it is a book for everybody because one of the things that I got in touch with, and the books said it wanted to say was… you know we’re incredibly advanced as a species in terms of tech and science. There's new apps out every single day. I don't know which iPhone version we're on now, you know? Every field is advancing in science and technology. But we never get any training, at all, in relationships. We don't get any relationship 101 in school- you know, how to not throw sand in the face in kindergarten. We don't learn what are some good techniques when trying to figure out how to date somebody? Or how do I work with this impossible person on my team? We have no training. Why is that? If everything is relationship, whether it's business or your family, yet nobody ever teaches us how to have a good fight. So, I really felt like if we want to evolve into species, we have to stop developing all these powerful weapons and learn how to apply them, because, as one of the graphics we have in the book is of two people handcuffed together and then their other hand is a knife. Relationships can be like that. We can't get away from each other and we have natural, aggressive tendencies and we don't know how to handle them. So, this book, in part, is about giving people basic understanding of how systems work, relationship systems. How do they work? How are they structured? So, there's a basic section which is just about the nature and different kinds of systems, the ‘me’ system, the ‘you and me’ system, the ‘we’ system, and how they all have common themes. The second half of the book is how relationships behave. It's called the principles. If you're studying lions, you want to know how they behave so you know how to handle yourself if you meet a lion on the path. And the second part of the book is about how you can expect relationship systems to behave. Once you have those things, you're more aware.
KC - I think what I love about this book is it shows us different ways to prototype our relationships, because I think many of us are handed a certain relationship pattern maybe through what our parents taught us or maybe we fall into certain patterns with our partner and then that's what we accept, that's just how it is.
FF- Yes.
KC - And I love that this offers different ways to trial and test. It's not ‘this is the way’, there are just lots of different ways. We can be conscious and intentional about what the next way might be.
FF - Yeah. You know, I think the cardinal thing about this book is about some of the being of relationship, who you need to be in working with your own subsystem of selves. How you need to be when you're working with a daughter who's just broken up with her boyfriend. And she violated curfew because she was so distraught. How do you want to be with your team when you have to close down a section of a department, say. And so, it's being is about awareness. So, the emphasis of the book is just getting aware of the stuff that's floating around out there so that you know what's going on. And the second part of the book is some basic tools and skills. Once you're aware, what can you do about it? So, I'm hoping these are useful and approachable skills for any kind of relationship.
KC - And you're touching on it here, you're giving us a flavor for the book. It's really storytelling in many ways. There's obviously the theory of relationship, but you bring it to life with story and then there are these wonderful graphics as well. I think that helps to make it more tangible and relatable and digestible.
FF - Well, thank you for saying that. I hope so too. It was clear to me that the book needed to be alive. You can't have a relationship without some vulnerability, so, this book has a lot of vulnerability in it. I think we share a lot of stories of successes and failures and personal stories about Marita and myself, or myself and my family or teams. So, I really wanted it to be a book that brought relationship alive, not a treatise on just coaching. It’s really about how you deal with bringing heart into professionalism. How do you work with being triggered and getting untriggered? So, it's a little bit of a guide with poignant stories about what works and what doesn't. It's such a gigantic area, how to do relationship, there's no way it could have all the answers. It's not even coming close with a fraction of the answers.
KC - But you definitely ask those questions and encourage people to ask those questions that might help them to find their own answers, and, in many ways, I think that's at the heart of the book, the idea that this is just the start. This is the initial opening to hopefully many more inquiries in people's lives.
FF - Yes. You know, to tell the truth, I started with it's a little bit shocking that we don't get any training in relationship back in kindergarten. We should start there. We get a little bit, we get clean up your mess and don't hit your friend. But the fact of the matter is that we need many schools, graduate schools, of how to be in relationship and we don't know anything, it's such an untouched area. How do we be in relationship with nature? How do we be in relationship with a spider in the tub? It's such a gigantic area and we're so ignorant still. So, I really need the readers, it's dedicated to the readers to carry that torch forward. What are you learning? You can share with your kids, your teams and so on.
KC - Yeah, I love that. There's definitely that call to action, and on that, I wonder if you can talk a bit about the structure of this book, because I feel, for me, at least, that's what made it so unique, the arc that holds this whole book together.
FF - Well, we have a small model for the book, it's such a broad area that having a little bit of a model can help you with that. So, we have a mission path and goal for the book. The mission is how do we evolve through relationship? If it’s what human beings need to do, evolve through relationship, that's the mission. Then the middle section is the path and the path has to do with two things. It has to do with what we call relationship warriorship, which is the being or the calling of somebody who wants to be better at relationship because you have to be brave to do relationship. So, relationship warriorship is part of the path and the other one is okay, so you're brave and you want to do it and now you need tools, and that is relationship systems intelligence, which is part of what we teach in the ORSC series. So that's the path, relationship warriorship and relationship systems intelligence. And the goal is out there in the midst, and it is right relationship. One of the things I love about right relationship is it sounds so great and yet it is so amorphous because what that means at any particular moment in time changes. Right relationship may be needing to get really angry with somebody. Right relationship might be putting aside your judgment. Only you know what is right relationship in the moment, and it's constantly shifting and evolving, which takes us back round at the beginning, evolving to the goal of right relationship.
KC – So, this really brings to mind then the idea that systems are naturally intelligent, generative and creative and they're constantly emerging.
FF - Yes, in fact, those are two of the principles in the second half of the book, that you can expect that any relationship you're in, among other things will emerge, will evolve itself and it does have its own answers. But how do you hear those answers? It's a good question. The other thing I think I like about the model of the book is people don't really understand what a relationship system is. It's a lovely amorphous term, relationship systems. What the hell does that mean? But the fact of the matter is there's a ‘me’ system and we are not one thing. We have multiple facets of self and when was the last time you had a fight with yourself about something? Which we're having all the time: ‘I should do this, nah, I shouldn't’, you know. How do I get along with my own personal system? Then there's the ‘you, me’, where all my different selves come together with all yours and some of them get along and some of them don't. And then there's, what we call in the book, the ‘we’ system, which are the larger systemic things like your family or society or teams or organizations. They're all systems, they just vary in size. So, I wanted to make it really simple. What do we mean by system? I hope the reader will choose to focus, like ‘I really need to do my work in my own system, myself’ or ‘you know what I want to improve my marriage here’ or ‘somebody gotta help me out with my organization because it's going down right now.’ So, I hope the reader will pick and choose and expand and they're focused through understanding better what is a relationship system?
KC - I love that approach because it sort of creates an alliance in a way with the reader that this isn't a one way street and I think quite often it's quite easy to read a book and be like ‘yeah, yeah, that sounds good’, that time management thing, but not actually apply it. I have a habit of just reading so much stuff but not applying and this book, I think, forces that because you ask so many questions and there are so many exercises.
FF - You know, I do because I'm the same way. Terrible confession here, but how many books have I read that I've been really impressed in the moment and then a week later I don't remember anything about it. I guess people may read it, that's like one of the questions I ask, what relationship do you want to have with the book? Is it a one-night stand or is it an ongoing marriage with the principles in the book, not the book itself, but the principles in the book. People need to be aware of that's all nice, but it doesn't really get in. And many people will read it that way, there's nothing wrong with a good one-night stand.
KC - I love that. But it's that conscious and intentional approach that makes me think the book is, in many ways, a coaching session, because the reader is bringing the agenda, they're bringing their family system or their relationship with their boss and then they're also accountable for the action. And you're not claiming that you can change their lives. You're saying that there are these tools but you're trusting and empowering them to do that.
FF – This book provides some tools, but it can't be a recipe because relationships are too complex. What right relationship means in any moment is too situational. So, we have to rely on the reader to bring their own experience, intelligence, understanding of the situation to bear because we all know that there are also beautiful tools you can learn that can be used as a weapon or can be used to help your marriage. And it's up to the reader to figure out how they're going to use this particular tool. And
KC – And I guess that really trusts that the reader is naturally intelligent, generative and creative in their own right, in their own system of me.
FF - You bet. And their own solutions will emerge, which is the next principle of systems.
KC – So, I'm curious, Faith, because this has been a three-year journey and so much, as you mentioned, has emerged in your systems, in your life. How did that emergence impact the book?
FF - Well, it took forever to write! But also, I think one of the things anybody who's ever written anything out there knows this, the book that I was thinking of writing when I started three years ago, isn't the book that I've ended up with three years later and that's precisely because the book had its own ideas of what it wanted to say that was influenced by the experience that the book and I went through in those three years. As I have evolved, the book wanted to evolve and already I feel like I can read something in it and feel like, well, that was then, and I actually think something a little different now. It's a constant evolution, since that's what relationship does. It's a constant emergence. It's a constant new idea of what it means to be intelligent and generative. There's no there there. I could write a whole other book even on the same topics and it would come out different. So it's flexible enough, I think, to… it requires the reader to pick it up and bring it alive from their experience. All things change and the book changed over the three years based on illness and huge things like selling the company and moving. All of the things that have happened in my life are grist to bring to the mill of what wanted to happen.
KC – That’s beautiful and it really talks to practicing what you preach about in the book, because so many of us have these are fixed agendas and particularly with something like a book, we might have a time frame or this is what it's like and there's a dance there, isn't there, with the universe?
FF - Yes, particularly when you begin to see as I feel that everything is relationship. So, I had to come to terms with a relationship to the changes in my life. I had to come to terms with an illness, I had to come to terms with moving, all these things have impact on you and I think if there's one thing I would really want to get across to people It's don't think of this as a coaching book. Yes, It has coaching tools and examples and samples, but I would be really happy if people really realized that they have a relationship with, let's just say, their car. You have a relationship with where you live. You have a relationship with the fact that you gained 10 pounds. You have a relationship with every single thing, it’s not separate from you, it's asking you to pay attention and to be conscious and intentional about every single thing that brushes up against you in your life, animate or inanimate. It’s a choice for what kind of relationship you're gonna have.
KC – I think there was that example that really stuck in my mind was around inanimate objects and you say, well, if you don't believe that, if you've ever taken off a wedding ring after, say, a painful divorce, you know that you have a relationship with that object. That really brought that alive for me because it can be very easy to poo poo, ‘well, yeah, I have relationships with people but not with things’ but of course we do.
FF - Of course we do, and I think another bug a boo that people have is this ‘well yeah, but you say we have relationship with things but it's one way, my wedding ring doesn't talk back to me’. But think about money in your life. What kind of relationship do you have with money? It's outgoing for you in terms of how do you feel about money, but what about the money's relationship with you. You feel like it never calls, it never writes, it never emails - do you feel like you're not in good relationship with money? That you can't trust it. Does it matter if it's in your mind or not in your mind, who knows? But it does impact you. How you feel about money impacts your behavior, so it's not just one way.
KC - And you mentioned the idea, is it the invisible number?
FF - Oh yeah, it's the square root of one. Because people say, ‘well, that's not a real thing’, but I've always loved the square root of negative one. It's a hugely important mathematical concept because of course you can't have a square root of negative one because it doesn't exist, it's an imaginary number. But we have so many imaginary things that it's critical in mathematics. They use that square root, that imaginary number, for a lot of things, it's very useful. But just think about it - can you put your hands on love? Can you measure God? There are imaginary principles in our lives all day long that we cannot concretely measure but have a massive impact in how we move through our life.
KC - I think that's so powerful. When I read about imaginary number when I was going through the book, the idea that it's responsible for so many of our electrical systems, and yet you think, how can this imaginary thing actually power real things? But I guess that's not the point. The idea helps to evolve what's possible. And that's what you're hoping with relationship as a principle. The very idea of it hopefully can bring something new.
FF - Yes. And how do you get a new idea about something unless you go into relationship with it? Unless you think about it or are open to thinking about it, in some way connecting, you can't do that inner work to find out what it means to you.
KC - I'm so excited for this book to go live, Faith, and for you to share this with the world. And I wonder, are there any final thoughts you have that you'd like to share with people before they perhaps go and pick up a copy and dive into relationship with the book too?
FF. I would say, to whatever degree you can, notice and look for and interact with connection, with all things, with nature, with yourself, with inanimate objects, with your health, with your children, with your spouse. See it as a doorway you can open up to. And if you're willing to engage, and what relationship is, it's reciprocal, if you're willing to receive information from those relationships as well, put things into that relationship, see what it offers you in terms of a vast landscape of potential. It's a spiritual path and a relationship warrior path to do relationships. So, open up to it and see what it gives you.
KC - Thank you, Faith. I'm so excited for this book to ripple out into the world.
FF - Thank you, Katie. It wouldn't be there without you. Thank you.
KC - And I look forward to speaking again soon, Faith. Take care.
[Music outro begins 26:31]
KC – A huge congratulations to Faith for writing such an important book on relationship wisdom. Relationship Matters is now available to purchase online from Amazon and there are hardback, paper cover and Kindle editions available. An audio book is coming soon. In Relationship Matters, Faith Fuller reveals the universal principles that underpin all relationship systems which will ultimately help you understand what relationship systems intelligence is and why it is critical to human evolution, develop relationship warriorship, unlock the hidden potential in conflict, identify new options for navigating difficult relationships, build life changing relationships, especially with yourself. Relationships aren’t something you do in your spare time. They are embedded in everything you do. By understanding these relationship systems, you will finally be able to cultivate positive, healthy relationships within yourself and those closest to you, while contributing to the evolution of relationships on a global level because all relationships matter. Finally, if Faith’s work impacts you in a positive way, please leave a review on Amazon and spread the word so more people can experience the power of relationship systems intelligence. For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time. CRR Global’s unshakeable belief is that relationship matters, from humanity to nature to the larger whole. For more information, please visit CRRGlobal.com.
[Music outro 28:37 – end]