Relationship Matters

Ep.20 Evolution of Women's Leadership

November 10, 2021 CRR Global Season 3 Episode 20
Relationship Matters
Ep.20 Evolution of Women's Leadership
Show Notes Transcript

In the final episode of season 3,  Katie talks with Faith Fuller and Yuri Morikawa and the evolution of women's leadership. Faith Fuller, co-founder of CRR Global and Yuri Morikawa founder of CRR Japan have an international friendship and creative partnership that spans over 12 years. In this podcast, they share a topic that is close to their hearts and one that has been evolving across through their conversations for many years: the evolution of women’s leadership. Across the episode, they discuss the triple goddess archetype (maiden, mother, crone) as a framework for understanding the evolution of women’s leadership, how they have evolved as leaders in their work and lives, the unique qualities women bring to leadership and what we might embrace from the different life stages.

Faith Fuller is co-owner and President of CRR Global. She is a psychologist and experienced trainer and coach, with over 15 years of experience in working with organizations, couples and communities. Faith takes a systems approach to coaching, namely that all aspects of the system need to be addressed in order for effective change to occur. Her particular skill is empowering powerful, productive and joyous relationships in couples, partnerships and teams . She also has a background in consultation, team building, conflict resolution and community crisis intervention.

Yuri Morikawa has been an active player in the professional coaching field since 2004. Prior to her career in coaching, Yuri worked as a management consultant specializing in organizational and leadership development for 13 years. After being a trainer for Coaching Training Institute (CTI) for 8 years, she launched the Organizational and Relationship Systems Coaching (ORSC) program in Japan and founded CRR Japan in 2009.  Currently, she is a global faculty member of CRR Global, developing professional organizational coaches around the world such as in Japan, China, Singapore, South Africa, Australia. She is passionate about bringing her professional experience to the bigger social context and works extensively with NGOs in Social Sectors such as Kamonohashi Project supporting survivor leaders of human trafficking issues in India and Asia Rural Institute educating organic farming and developing servant leadership for rural leaders in Asia and Africa.


For over 18 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

Relationship Matters Season 3 Episode 20

 

Key 

 

KC – Katie Churchman 

FF – Faith Fuller

YM - Yuri Morikawa

 

[Intro 00:00 – 00:06] 

 

KC – Hello and welcome back to the final episode, season three, of the Relationship Matters podcast, we believe relationship matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole. In the final episode of season 3, I’m excited to share a conversation between Faith Fuller and Yuri Morikawa. Faith Fuller, co-founder of CRR Global and Yuri Morikawa founder of CRR Japan have an international friendship and creative partnership that spans over 12 years. In this podcast, they share a topic that is close to their hearts and one that has been evolving across through their conversations for many years: the evolution of women’s leadership. Across the episode, they discuss the triple goddess archetype (maiden, mother, crone) as a framework for understanding the evolution of women’s leadership, how they have evolved as leaders in their work and lives, the unique qualities women bring to leadership and what we might embrace from the different life stages. So without further ado I bring you the wonderful Faith Fuller and Yuri Morikawa. 

 

 

KC – Yuri, Faith, I’m absolutely delighted to have you both on the show, welcome to the Relationship Matters podcast. 

 

FF – Delighted to be here! 

 

YM – Thank you Katie for having us. 

 

KC – And I’m very excited about this topic today, I’m not sure where we’re going to go but I know that the theme is evolution of women’s leadership. So I’m wondering if you could start with why this topic and why now? 

 

FF – Start us out Yuri! 

 

YM – Well, first of all, this is not scientific! This is not research based. However this is the topic that Faith and I have been very passionate about while we are working together since 2009, is that right Faith? 

 

FF – Yeah! I think so. A lot time. And we should say that we have been good friends and colleagues since 2009 and one of the topics we have often come back too is different forms of women leadership. And so we wanted to just share some of our musings and thoughts about it. But, as Yuri said, this is not a research based thing, it’s not a training. It’s two women who who’ve worked in leadership for a long time riffing about how women are different in terms of their leadership.

 

YM – And one of the things is along these 12 years, let’s say, 12 years that both of us have been the witness for each other, for how we have evolved in our lives and also how we show up as women leaders. 

 

FF – Yes. 

 

YM – So, in a way we are the living example and we are hoping that this can give some thoughts or empowerment for a lot of our audience today. 

 

KC – Wow. 

 

FF – Yeah, and you know what I’m just noticing is I think it’s only been fairly, well not that soon, but since about 2009 that I’ve even thought about women leadership. I think there’s just a sense of theirs leadership and, as a woman trying to find my own leadership, I didn’t even think about femininity in leadership or masculinity in leadership until more recently and that’s partly why I think this conversation was fascinating to us, it’s like are there male leadership qualities as well as female? Undoubtedly, I’m sure. This is gonna be from our playful exploration for women but I do think there are corollary concepts as we go through or some of our concepts which would be just as applicable for how is male leadership uniquely different. 

 

YM – Yes, absolutely.

 

KC – So this tracks both your own observations in terms of the clients you’ve been working with and also personally, yourselves and each other, your leadership journeys. 

 

FF – Absolutely.

 

YM – Yes. 

 

FF – And I think, Yuri and I, when we were trying to talk about this, getting ready to do this podcast, Yuri do you feel ready to talk about the model? 

 

YM – Sure! So, when we think about women’s leadership and a woman is naturally relational and we create relationship and then empowering each other from heart and emotions. 

 

FF – Yes. 

 

YM – And, we find that along with our evolution as woman, and there is particular power that we being into the world. 

 

FF – Yes. Well said, well said. And I think, you know, what’s so interesting for me right now is that we’re working with a lot of agile coaches and many agile coaches, by all means not all, but many are male and there seems to be this marriage beginning to happen between agile coaching and ORSC coaching and a hunger for, I’ve had many agile coaches say that the relational aspect of ORSC is a natural complement to the structures of agile. And so I think there is a hunger for that relational, more heart based approach that, after all, ORSC was developed by two women! So I think… I don’t think that’s a mistake and I’ve been very hesitant to own it but I keep thinking that there’s a certain truth to the fact that that relational interest and that heart based emotional comfort is pretty uniquely about women. Not that it isn’t about men, yes, but more so women. And in the playing with this we were reminded of a model that is ancient. In fact it’s called the Triple Goddess and many women are going to know this model, especially if they’re feminist, but we don’t use it as a model for power much. But basically this is an ancient, goes all the way back to the Wiccan day and neo-paganism now, and it looks at three phases of power for women. And the first one’s the maiden.

 

YM – So maiden power is something like a young woman brings. Like there is a power of youth, a natural beauty and power of sexuality. 

 

FF – Yes. 

 

YM – And that involves, in a sense, maybe naive, being naive. However once the women’s dreaming and hope for it and that power cast it onto the space. 

 

FF – Yeah, another way I think about it is that maiden power is often really based, body based, in the sense of youth, vigor, beauty. Also, I really want to mention this because I think the power of sexuality is something that women have almost tried to hide as we got competitive when entering the workspace and the professional space. But, frankly, I think to deny the power of sexuality, particularly for women who I think have often used that power because they didn’t have other types of power at the time. So, to own your sexual power as a woman, your capacity to flirt with a room, to seduce somebody into a situation, is a form of power that shouldn’t be denied or be ashamed of. 

 

YM – That’s a very good point, Faith. Because I myself have had a huge edge of bringing this maiden power as a professional. However, until Faith pointed out I never realized how much I use that maiden power as a women’s leadership in the workshop spaces. That when we introduce ORSC and we enroll people into playing together and actually being experiential learning, and I realize that I actually like looking into eyes and being playful and sometimes grab people into work, so those kind of physicality, to make the space alive and playful and energetic and Faith pointed out that that is maiden power and I use a lot of it! 

 

FF – Yeah. The maiden has the power of seduction, of pulling in. Seduction not in a crude sexual sense but seduction in a sense of enrolling, of coaxing you over an edge, of seeing you over the edge that we talk about in ORSC a lot! And maidens know how to use their physicality and their flirtatiousness for… it’s not about manipulation, it’s about invitation. Maiden is a lot about, I think, the capacity to invite others in in a non-threatening way, often. 

 

KC – That’s so interesting, when you mentioned initially the power of sexuality I was on an edge because that feels like something that is something you maybe shouldn’t use, particularly if you’re thinking leadership, but the way you just described it is so different. It’s like a charismatic sort of way of being, particularly if we’re leading a room, that does sort of bring in that sort of flirtatious, energetic eye contact, and so it’s a different way of thinking about what that power can mean, I think. So thank you for opening my eyes to that! 

 

FF – Yeah.

 

YM – Yeah, and just realizing that we, in the ORSC programing, that we teach once you have rank and privilege, it’s a privilege of being a woman, and own it and use it intentionally! SO that’s something that, it relates to all the power that we’re going to mention from now on. 

 

FF – Yeah, and I think you’re really right, both of you, and I had a huge edge against that as well, but I actually had a great conversation with a friend of mine who’s a leader, and he was saying well I don’t understand it, women have this power of the flirt, of the seduction. Take it out of the context of sex and into the context of drawing in and it’s a huge power and nobody ever owns it, you know! And I think that’s because, in part, women had to rely on sex and, I’m talking sex here, as sometimes the only power they had before we had any kind of hierarchical power, that was the back door road that women could use both for manipulation and for good. But I do think we need to own it, as women, it’s a potent power! 

 

YM – Yes. I just want to add a quality, it’s not only the sexuality but also it’s the power of risk taking as well. 

 

FF – Yes! 

 

YM – Enrolling people and bringing people across over the edge, that’s the maiden power. 

 

FF – Well said, well said. So that’s maiden power. And then the next part of leadership, the next sort of phase that many women go into and this is not literal by the way, but it’s mother power. And we don’t mean that literally you have to be a mother, it’s a natural quality that women grow into as they get a little older. And women, mother power is familiar to most of us, it is the power of nurturing the other. Of service. Serving what is needed in the moment. Mother power is warm, nurturing, accommodating, low ego and a very much wanting to bring others along and bring others up in the world. 

 

YM – Yeah, I think mother, you know, mother power, is not necessarily, you know, the leader do something for them. It’s more of creating the space and welcoming the people to contribute and mother power is there to hold. 


FF – Yeah, that’s great. Mother power is a holding energy, holding the space, the container. 

 

YM – Yeah. And at the same time we think that there’s a lot of consensus reality as well, that we just do it, whatever is needed there. It’s not that, it’s doing for others. It’s serving for others. 

 

FF – Yeah, and it’s a lot of consensus reality. There’s an endless task of things that mothers need to do and I’m not talking about literal mothers even though that’s true, but if you are in mother mode within a team you’re really scanning what does a team need. You’ll step in to do what isn’t covered, you know, whatever needs to be done you do it because you step up for service. Service is a primary, I think, motivator from the mother energy. 

 

YM – Mmm hmm. And Faith, you have a lot of it, right? I don’t know if it’s fair to bring Marita in but both of you that are having so much, when you created CRR and this concept and making the birth to this program I notice that you did so much consensus reality. Of course dreaming in essence, but made it happen and a lot coming from mother power. 

 

FF – That’s true, I have the wrinkles to show for it. Mothers work hard! 

 

YM – Yeah, for others and for the future generation. Also that includes the raising others, it’s really setting the boundaries and within that boundaries giving protection and opportunity for growth. 


FF – Well said. You know, I’m just aware as we speak of it that anytime you are creating a project or creating a company or creating… that is mother power and you don’t have to be a female to do it. You are birthing something into the world and you are protective of it and you nurture it along and have it get what it needs, have it grow and evolve. You could also potentially, father power is also very potent and similar but slightly different I think. 

 

YM – Yeah. 

 

KC – I’m wondering, I know you’re both mothers in the literal sense, did that impact this phase of women’s leadership for you both? Did you feel that when you became a literal mother it impacted your mother power in the wider sense? 

 

FF – Yeah! I think the primary thing for me, when you’re coming from mother power, is it’s not egotistical. You are serving something. It could be another person in a literal mother, a baby, or you could be serving a project or a company or somebody who is sick and needs caring for or… for me, the experience of mothering something is when you put your own needs not aside, it’s not about becoming a victim, but it’s about putting the care and nurturing of another thing or person at least equal and sometimes ahead of your own needs, sometimes. 

 

YM – I cannot agree with you more on what you have just said. Yes, both Faith and I are mothers, and that naturally make us, at least for me, that brings in that mother power, it’s a most comfortable and favorite role in life! I notice that it’s socially most accepted and, in a way, respected and admired role. 

 

FF – Yeah. Women are empowered in the mother role around the world. 

 

YM – That’s right, yeah. So, I notice that I myself might have been overused this mother power and it’s not always the positive side, it’s also something that cannot work well, I’ve noticed. Because I’ve over used I’ve sometimes noticed that I’ve been too protective about the system that I’m working with and creating a limitation because I didn’t want to see that too much risk happening in the space… 

 

FF – To the baby! 

 

YM – To my baby! Right? My baby! So sometimes I realize that I’m stopping some kind of recklessness or huge innovation with risk and I’ve stopped it. So I’ve realized that it’s probably having that experience as a real mother and connecting too much, bringing that overuse of that power. 

 

FF – That’s a really good point. And I’ve gotten into trouble with that role because quite literally as a professional woman, first becoming a psychologist and then building a company, I had competition between my mother roles. My daughter sometimes felt like she got, you know, came behind whatever big initiative I was doing! So she often felt like she came in second to my professional ambition and there’s some truth to that! There’s advantages and disadvantages to professional women, you know, now that she is older she deeply appreciates the model of a professional women who also was a mother but when they’re little and something’s going on and you still have to go and work with that team and your kid is sick, you feel guilty, they feel abandoned, it’s not easy! It’s not easy. The tensions between different kinds of mothers that are needed. 

 

KC – That’s such a good point, I didn’t think about the flipside to all of these and I imagine as well staying too much in that mother space you might abandon your own needs. 

 

FF – Yes. Absolutely.

 

YM – Mmhmm. Yes, that applies to me too. 

 

KC – Yeah, and I think any women that’s a professional woman and has a family has struggled with this issue. You know. And usually you can wear yourself out trying to cover all the bases. I wouldn’t do anything else, you can wear yourself out covering all the bases. And, what do you think Yuri, are we ready to go onto my personal favorite? 

 

YM – Yes! Our fascination to introduce crone power. 

 

FF – Yeah! Crone power is my personal favorite probably because I’m living it. And also because I have a deeply held belief, actually, that many women… and it’s often said and this is a gross over generalization but many men peak in their 40s, they often hit their power in their 40s. But I think many women don’t hit their real power in the world until they become menopausal and it’s almost as if when we step literally, physically into the body, away from the generativity of babies, so to speak, it frees women up to turn their energy, their focus and their power to something different. So the crone is known for moving out of so much of the nurturing protective energy, and instead the crone turns towards her new allegiance which is to the truth, to speaking the truth. 

 

YM – Yes. I want to give you a story that when first Faith and I started to discuss crone power, when in, I think 2011, 2012, something around there, and when I started out CRR Japan and Faith and Marita supported us to really develop the market and this business and when we were walking on the street and there’s a tiny old lady coming towards us, and she was an old Japanese lady, her back is bent and she had a stick – 

 

FF – A big stick! 

 

YM - … support helping her walking, and in way that we said we need to create the space for her, right. But she didn’t need that kind of sympathy or support she just ran, waving her stick and creating her space and get away, get away from my way, and you know, man and bicycle and very crowded narrow street in Japan and they created a space for her and she just walked in the middle of the street, no problem. And we had, you know, our mouths wide open, looking at her and Faith said wow, this is the crone power! 

 

FF – Yeah, the crone no longer worries about, she doesn’t have the concerns of the man in terms of needing to access beauty, physicality, sexuality. And she’s done. Really done with mothering. And it’s not that she never does mothering anymore but it’s like been there, done that. The crone comes into her own power and it’s the power of what she’s choosing to serve. And it is often a larger perspective than just… the mother is dealing with her local family, her tribe, so to speak, but the crone really opens up to speaking truth to power, saying how she sees it, she isn’t afraid of what others think of her and so she has high authenticity and integrity in who she is. And her job is to speak the truth as she sees it and not worry about what others feel about her. I always wanna grow up to be an old Japanese woman. And I’m telling you these old Japanese ladies are formidable. I went, I was in Hawaii once when they were having a marathon and all these Japanese people were doing the marathon and they had one contingent of Japanese ladies who were gonna do the whole marathon with their, walking sticks. They were gonna walk it but they were gonna do the whole thing and they were there in the park doing their exercises and they stumped along, they did all 26 miles – they were impressive! 

 

KC – Wow. 

 

YM – Yeah, and a lot of times I am at the early 50s now and I think I am on the process of learning about this crone power. And I sometimes had a fear about what I’m going to lose, right, maybe losing the beauty or losing the youth or losing the, I don’t know, attention from others or, all that. However Faith always says welcome to 50s! 50s, 60s – that’s the best! So I’m being encouraged by bigger sisters. 

 

KC – Love that. 

 

YM – And really empowered. 

 

FF – So those of you out there who are looking at your mirror and really worried about your little nanny hairs that are starting to appear in your 50s and going oh, oh my god I’m going to grow a beard! Celebrate your nanny hairs! They are part of your croning! 

 

KC – I guess I’m wondering with this crone power, the first thing that came to mind when you started to describe it is it feels so freeing and powerful and yet I fear that a lot of women don’t get there because of the priorities that are placed often on women in terms of looking a certain way and being a certain way, and I know people that fight to stay in the maiden and the mother, then there’s this whole piece, this whole power that’s being lost. So I’m just wondering your thoughts around that? Because it seems more prevalent for women. I know men have their own aging issues but you don’t see so many grey haired women on the TV as you do bald men and there’s something around that that makes me worry that many of us might miss crone power because of this. 

 

FF – Yes, well what I want to say to that is again, I’ve learned from the Japanese. And this is again, forgive me, it’s a gross over generalization but in Japan, your average family in Japan, is more gender specific, I would say - Yuri, is that fair? 

 

YM – Mmhm. 

 

FF – The mother has a strong role in the family, a very powerful role there, she often, you know, the father is the provider and the mother sort of rules the roost with the family but when she crones, and she often puts up with a lot because that’s her role. But there’s a lot of fearsome older Japanese women who sort of feel like ok, kids are all grown up, I did a good job, they’re out of the house, I’m not going to cook for you anymore when you come home, I’m tired of doing that. I want to go and have adventures with my friends now so you need to deal with yourself. I’m not getting a divorce but I’m going to live my own life somewhat! And you know, you’ve told me about that Yuri. 

 

YM – We have a word for it. We say it’s obachanpower. 

 

KC – Obachan. 

 

YM – Obachan. Elderly women power. And it really resonates with the crone power, it’s a freeing and it’s respected. Of course it’s used in a negative tone, like, losing that maiden beauty, however there is certain respect for that status of a womans life, completing, done with the quote, unquote “women’s work”, traditionally given that woman’s inner role and outer role. So this obachan power, crone power, actually is the protector for being the freedom, I think, in this Japanese society. I think most powerful energy now is obachan power. 

 

FF – Yeah. And you know, Katie you’re brining up a really important point though. I think that is revered, I think there is a sense of how older people are more revered in Asian specific culture, it’s true in China, it’s true in Japan, I think it’s true in Singapore. The elders are respected for their wisdom or their experience. The West of course has much of that but I think women have been trapped a lot in maiden and mother and there aren’t a lot of roles … that’s changing, now that we have in government now, Kamala Harris and, you know, Jill Biden, women who have their own careers, their own power and their own freedom to speak, I think that’s changing but I think it hasn’t been acknowledged officially in Western culture nearly as much as Asia specific cultures. 

 

KC – And it does feel like a very freeing place to go too, I was just thinking about my mother and after I finished university I went to the Philippines to volunteer for three months and I remember my mother saying I want to do something like that and I was like just do it, you’re a nurse, you could go anywhere! And so the next year my mum goes to the Philippines to volunteer, the year after she goes to Laos, the year after she goes to Columbia, the year after that she goes to Costa Rica and she works as a nurse all around the world. And then my dad will visit her for a holiday at the end of her six weeks, two months, but it’s like she’s got this space, this freedom in her life that she didn’t have before and I remember just thinking that was so inspiring. Because it was like this new chapter but she didn’t see it as a oh, what’s been lost, the kids have grown up, it was more like what’s possible? And I just think it was magical to see! 

 

FF – Yeah. You know, my own mother went through a very difficult menopause because that was back, you know, in the 50s/60s where women didn’t have as much empowerment as they do today and she was a very beautiful woman and she struggled a lot with the loss of her beauty. But also she didn’t have a thing, you know, she didn’t have anything to do once her kids grew up. She had four kids, that lasted a long time, but she had to re-find herself and she ended up going into prisons in Litchfield County and teaching convicts to read. Now that is pretty ballsy to do when you’re in your 60s and 70s, she was marching into the prisons and teaching classes, helping them become literate and it’s like go mama, you know! But it took her a while to find it, it takes time for women to shed the mother role and I just want to speak also as I am shedding the mother role somewhat around CRR Global for me in a sense that I am no longer wanting to do the day to day consensus reality details and administrating the company, I want to find the truth in the work, you know, work in broader areas. So I think there is a shift and a letting go of old role and a need to step into the new which is true also professionally for women as part of their croning. What’s the real mission now that you’re older? Let’s suppose you use your death as a sense of something that makes you serious about I have… I’m limited in my time. What’s really going for me for my next 20 years, say? 30 years. 25, 30 years. Whatever it is. What’s really important now? I’ve done the mothering, I’ve done the young woman phase and loved them and they have informed me and they live inside me but what is really meaningful now for the last third of my life? 

 

YM – Thank you for saying that, Faith, it’s really about evolution. From woman to real, you know, deep humanity. Tapping into the real deep humanity and truth of it. 


FF – True. I love that. In fact the crone is not so much even attached anymore to womanhood. She is human. Her focus is the human. Well said. 

 

KC – I’m wondering how can we help each other feel empowered in leadership? Because it can be hard, particularly if you’re working in an organization where it’s male dominated, it can often feel like you’re competing against the other female leader. So how can we help each other to sort of feel empowered in these different roles? 

 

FF – Great question.

 

YM – I want to say one story that I have experienced actually with Faith. That was back in 2008 or 09, somewhere around there and I was CTI leader at that time. There was a big event in the US, like 100s of leaders coming from all over the world and there was some big event happening. And that was the first time I went there and had the opportunity to, I wanted to say something in the big crowd but I’m small and I’m tiny and I wasn’t self-confident so my voice was small, and I speak up and other people speak over, and then I speak up and then other people speak over. And that time Faith was there and one word you said, Faith, Yuri – I’m listening. 

 

FF – I’m listening. 

 

YM – And everybody stopped speaking at the moment, all of a sudden space happened and I could speak what I needed to say. And for me it was very gentle and the word was very simple but that was a huge woman power. Woman leadership presented. Maybe that was partially mother power but a lot crone power, not caring about others but saying and listening. And I still remember how much I was empowered and how much I felt proud of, you know, being a leader, being Asian and being a woman. And so, answering to your question Katie, I think we can empower so many ways but really listening and also sometimes just be there and be the listener, be the witness, and highlight that leadership is showing up from that person. 

 

KC – That’s so beautiful. 

 

FF – Well thank you Yuri for that and extrapolating from that I think it’s really useful for women to find woman mentors, at all ages. Yuri, you know, you’re not all that old but you’ve been mentoring since you were 20. There is something about, I think women need too, I think we’re in the beginning of a revolution of what women’s power really is. And Katie, I think that sense of women often get into a competitive situation with other women like there’s not going to be enough to go around so women need to fight against each other is profoundly sad. Women need to empower each other so if you’re a young woman find the women you admire. It could be your mother, it could be someone in a different, found her way in a different profession, or in your own profession. Somebody you can just talk too who knows who you are and is willing to appreciate who you are. Somebody who appreciates and gets you. Somebody who gets you is so empowering because women need to find amongst themselves, we don’t need to pick up a 100% of male power, we need to pick up some of that because it informs us, male power informs us and empowers us differently. Also need to find our own way. And I sometimes think that CRR Global has struggled with we’re trying to do right relationship, what does that mean when you’re running a company and somebody isn’t measuring up? You know. What does that mean when a partner can’t pay their bills to us? What does that mean when, what does that mean when? How do you put right relationship ahead of always the highest financial good. And we would probably be a whole lot richer as a company if we had been better around the bottom line but I wouldn’t trade in for anything the experiences that we’ve had of helping tide people over in a difficult space and about how we try hard not to sever relationship even when there’s been a bad ending or how do we make peace and often recycle that person back in in a different way. So I think women’s power is hitting its stride, beginning too. And we need more of that. So, don’t assume you have to line up in the old way. Talk to more women about what’s the new way and I would love to see more of that. 

 

KC – I love that, I think what’s been fascinating about this conversation is it’s about women’s leadership. And I always think about how history’s written by the victors and that might be depending on the race, gender, class, and I think about how leadership is quite typically been colored by how our men fill that role of leadership and I think it’s important now that we start to write a different narrative, one that works for women. 

 

YM – Absolutely. 

 

FF – I agree. I think, you know, in China they say women hold a path to the sky. And yet I don’t think women have had the chance to hold a path, the powers to the sky. So let women hold up the path, the powers, the sign, we need to know what that means. 

 

YM – We can be unapologetically women. We have been apologetic for so long and we don’t have to be and really own it, really own it and use it intentionally. 

 

KC – Thank you both so much. You have such a strong third entity, the two of you, and I’m feeling so empowered here so I cannot wait to share this with the world. This is such an important conversation and thank you for coloring in what women’s leadership can look like for me. I hugely appreciate it. 

 

FF – Thank you, that was great fun! Thanks Yuri. 

 

YM – Yes, it was so much fun, thank you! Thank you Katie, thank you Faith. 

 

[Music outro begins 35:35] 

 

KC – Thanks to Faith Fuller and Yuri Morikawa for that beautiful discussion. As Faith and Yuri mentioned at the start of the podcast, this view of women’s leadership comes from their own personal experiences and leadership journeys. Across the episode they used the Triple Goddess archetype maiden, mother crone, as a framework for understanding the evolution of women’s leadership. Here are my key takeaways from their discussion. Maiden power characteristics include youth, naturally beauty, playfulness, sexuality, innocence, naivety, dreaming, energetic, risk taking and hopefulness. Mother power characteristics include empathetic understanding, selflessness, holding space, raising others, setting boundaries, giving protection and creating opportunity for growth. And crone power characteristics include directness, wisdom, greater freedom, compassion, guiding others, reflection, self-examination and forgiveness. Mother power is the most accepted, respected and admired role in society in general. As a result this can lead to us over using mother power, perhaps by being too protective and creating limitations for others to use Yuri’s example from the episode. Creating more awareness about the type of power we typically lean on whether than be maiden, mother, crone or something else, can help us too find more balance as a leader both in our professional and personal lives. Finding female mentors can help women to find their own leadership style. Women don’t have to rely on the way things have been done before, we can create our own leadership style and empower other women to do the same. For more information about Yuri and Faith’s work do check out CRRGlobal.com. That’s a wrap for season three, it’s been a real privilege hosting the most international season to date and I can’t thank you enough for your continued support of the podcast. As we look forward to season four we want to hear from you as you are an essential part of our system, so please do let us know what you’d like to hear about and what guests you’d love to see on season four. In the meantime, if you know of anyone you think might benefit from the podcast please do share and subscribe so we can further spread the word that relationship matters, from humanity, to nature, to the larger whole. Thank you, take care and see you back here for season four. 

 

[Outro 38:16 – end] 

 

KC - For over 18 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time. We believe Relationship Matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole.