Worldwork Bonus: Improving the social & economic position of immigrant women in the Netherlands

In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 5 bonus episodes, you will be hearing from Worldworkers from across the globe, who have all used ORSC tools in very different ways tools to serve their wider communities.  

In this episode, Katie talks with Mélanie Rouppe van der Voort about her Worldwork project: improving the social and economic Position of Immigrant Women in the Netherlands. As both the ORSC Certification Program and the Covid-19 pandemic coincided for Melanie, she had to be creative in finding clients and doing her WWP. Due to the huge societal impact of the pandemic, she felt drawn to the work of a Dutch foundation, whose name when translated literally means Women’s Power. Melanie has huge respect for the work that the women do at the foundation because they give their community members – predominantly immigrant women with non-western backgrounds – a voice and a platform to build a life in the Netherlands. The founders and most important change agents have shown that they are able to turn hopelessness, fear and frustration into courage and engagement.

Melanie Rouppe van der Voort is a certified coach and in addition to her private coaching practice, has been working in the financial industry for over 25 years. With her legal and change management background, she is currently working for the Expert Centre of Governance, Behaviour and Culture at the Dutch Central Bank. She has been married to her husband Willem for over 22 years and together they have a 17-year-old son and 14-year-old daughter.


The Worldwork Project is a key element in the ORSC certification journey. It allows students to apply the ORSC™ materials in the real world and develop themselves as change agents. At CRR Global we hold all our students as change agents and train them to be conscious of what impact they want to make in their world. We believe that everybody’s impact –whether conscious or unconscious— sends ripples out into the world. It’s up to all of us, as world workers, to keep our communities safe and healthy. For more information about World Work and the ORSC Certification programme click here.

 We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

Transcript

Key 

KC – Katie Churchman 

MR - Mélanie Rouppe van der Voort

[Music intro 00:00 – 00:06] 

KC – Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast Worldworks Special. We believe relationship matters, from humanity to nature to the larger whole. I’m your host Katie Churchman and in this collection of bonus episodes we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork which embraces the idea that we are continually impacting the world whether we’re conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with the self. Across the course of these five bonus episodes you’ll be hearing from Worldworkers from across the globe who’ve all used organizational and relationship systems coaching tools in very different ways to serve their wider communities. In this episode I’m talking with Mélanie Rouppe van der Voort about her Worldwork project: Improving the social and economic position of immigrant women in the Netherlands. Melanie is a certified coach and in addition to her private coaching practice has been working in the financial industry for over 25 years. With her legal and change management background, she is currently working for the Expert Centre of Governance, Behaviour and Culture at the Dutch Central Bank. She has been married to her husband Willem for over 22 years and together they have a 17-year-old son and 14-year-old daughter. As both her ORSC certification program and the Covid-19 pandemic coincided for Melanie, she had to be creative in finding clients and thinking about her Worldwork project. Due to the huge societal impact of the pandemic, she felt drawn to the work of a Dutch foundation, whose name when translated literally means Women’s Power. Melanie has huge respect for the work that the women do at the foundation because they give their community members – predominantly immigrant women with non-western backgrounds – a voice and a platform to build a life in the Netherlands. The founders and most important change agents have shown that they are able to turn hopelessness, fear and frustration into courage and engagement. So without further ado I bring you Mélanie Rouppe van der Voort. 

KC – Mélanie, welcome to the Relationship Matters podcast. I’m delighted to have you on the show. 

MR – Yes, thank you for being here and the possibility to contribute to your podcast, it’s so wonderful. I remember that we were both in the certification program in the same cohort so I feel very privileged, thank you. 

KC – I distinctly remember, Mélanie, when you shared your project overview during our cohort celebration and sharing around all the different Worldwork projects we were doing. And I remember yours distinctly because of the power and the ripple effects it creates, using ORSC to improve the social and economic position of immigrant women from predominantly non-Western backgrounds who are trying to build a life in the Netherlands. I guess I’d love to start Mélanie by asking you what inspired your Worldwork project? 

MR – Interesting question because as we started our certification program the Covid 19 pandemic also started, so I really had to be creative, actually. So in the beginning I thought I will do something in the corporate world because I work there, but then I noticed the impact of the pandemic and especially on certain groups of people that really needed help, so I thought maybe I can do a project where people are really longing for a new perspective, and then via my own network I got in touch with the foundation Vrouwenkracht and if you translate that into English it is called female strength or female power and that’s immediately resonated with me, I thought well, let’s have a look and see what I can do here. That was the start, actually, of this Worldwork project. 

KC – I don’t think I realized that you had to change because of Covid. 

MR – Yeah. 

KC – I also had to change my project and the podcast was my Worldwork project, as you know!

MR – A brilliant idea! 

KC – Oh, thank you. Again, another one, yours that came out of the pandemic that we just didn’t expect, you’re forced to improvise in a way and to redesign. 

MR – Yes, yes we do. And I thought actually it’s, this foundation has a beautiful purpose because it’s really helping out women that come from non-Western countries, they’re all immigrant women and they have to build up a life in the Netherlands and they, well they lost their foundation, some of them lost their families and they’re coming from warzones and what I so much appreciate is that the most important change agents in that foundation give those women that are so much in hopelessness and in fear and in anger and in frustration, you know, they turn all these feelings into courage and engagement again. So these immigrant women develop a new perspective and build up their lives again which is, I think, there’s so much strength in this foundation, what I so much appreciate. 

KC – Mmm. That must have been so inspiring to be around that strength? 

MR – Oh, absolutely. And maybe also another aspect because when you think of female strength you think about femininity, but I think in a way there is also a lot of masculine energy in it because those women are, the initiators are really lighthouses and they’re very much focused on doing, on action, on building up a life, on getting structure again which is a masculine component and at the same time I also notice that these women bring interconnectedness, love, compassion, empathy, which are very feminine aspects and I think as coaches we also bring that to the world. So, actually, the combination of those two energies inspired me to develop more mutual understanding in the groups I was coaching. So, yes. 

KC – I don’t think I’ve come across a person yet who hasn’t been personally touched and changed in some way by their Worldwork project. 

MR – Yes, yes. I think so and at first, of course, I really had to invest in the group process, in the group itself, get to know the people, because these groups are also very diverse which, in a way, is beautiful because when you think of our systemic approach, we believe that everyone in the group has value, has its own qualities, its own perspective and views which can, well, you know, one and one is three. But then in these groups people really needed to feel invited to speak up and bring their own essence as well which was challenging sometimes. And what I actually did was use the metaskills wheel and work with values and then I assigned everyone the certain value and they became the ambassador for that specific value, and sometimes, when it was really quiet, I would ask of course, so what does this silence tell here? What’s going on here? Reading the emotional field. But sometimes I needed something extra and then I could say so what is respect thinking here? Or what is heart feeling here? Or, you know, what about creation, and then that would really help the group to start and have a conversation. 

KC – Wow. So using metaskills as a different channel in to conversations? 

MR – Yes. Exactly. Yes, I really had to be creative sometimes. 

KC – So, am I right in thinking these groups you were working with, the women didn’t know each other? And they were from different backgrounds but primarily immigrant women with predominantly non-Western backgrounds trying to build a life in the Netherlands? 

MR – Yes. And then maybe I should become more specific as well because I actually coached two groups and two individuals, so the first group was the board of the foundation, I spent a few sessions with them. But the most sessions I spent with, the most important change agents so they call themselves the pillars of the living room, and these nine women gather together every Wednesday and they invite the community, so the larger group of women, and they did all kinds of workshops. So like cooking, cleaning the neighborhood, but also practical things – how do you work with a computer? You know, and these nine women I was very much focusing on them and they also, their different nationalities. And yes, they knew this is Myriam, she’s from Syria and this is Hoyan, she’s coming from Morocco, for instance, but these women didn’t know about their real backgrounds and stories so the experiences they got into and, you know, especially when I was working with the three levels of reality, people were able to tell when I came to the Netherlands, this was how I experienced this foundation so really going to essence level and then also telling each other’s stories. Once nurse who had fled the Taliban and had to travel to the mountains, you know, and help other people and no one knew about it, so that made a huge shift, actually, in the group and people opened up and then it became so much easier to work with them. 

KC – Wow, I think that’s fascinating because so often I think we hear these broad definitions like immigrant or non-immigrant and actually within that there’s such a collection of diverse stories and it sounds like up until this point they hadn’t really noticed each other’s differences so much or got to know each other in that way. 

MR – Yes. And, you know, some of these women are very traumatized and so it takes time to open up and to share, you know, sometimes it’s so painful. And then on a very different level they bring their upbringing and traditions also to the Netherlands and then, of course, here there is much more safety, much more freedom, but unconsciously they take their upbringing with them and then when they are in the group some of them won’t speak up because they’re rather young compared to other more senior or more aged people in the group. And I was actually inviting them and telling them we’re all equal, you know, and each voice counts so please, speak up. And then of course, that is so easily said so I needed to do something extra and I think the power of stories is huge, telling all those narratives. And I was actually surprised that they didn’t know about each other’s background because I thought you see each other Wednesday, you know, so you must know something more, but it was totally new to them. 

KC – I wonder how much people are carrying, we just see people and put them in their boxes sometimes and actually forget that they have their stories that they’re carrying and some of them aren’t so easy to hold. What’s fascinating is that this is the ultimate in lands work, isn’t it, when you think about the fact that they’re bringing from their land and they’re coming to this new land and it’s like what can we learn here? What can we get curious about and create together? 

MR – Yes. That was also a very important metaskill in the group. Holding that curiosity, absolutely, and holding diversity, absolutely. You’re totally right about that. We actually worked a lot with the land work too, even to dream into each other’s lands and also, one time, dream into the land of the board, for instance, and the larger community. So, because the patterns that were abroad, they also bring these with them here in the foundation and it really helped doing lands work to also understand the challenges of the board and vice versa. So that also healed something I would say. 

KC – It’s amazing how leaning in with curiosity can be so healing in its own right. 

MR – Yes. And you know, there were a lot of things going on in the foundation itself because the foundation was growing hugely so you know, of course, most of these foundations start with volunteers and then later on you understand well, we also need to become more business orientated because we need our funding, we need to tap into professional networks and so for some of those volunteers it meant they had to take on another role and they couldn’t stay on the board any longer. However they could, well, absolutely contribute but then in another way. So a lot of inner and outer rules changed as well, so we needed to work on that as well. 

KC – Yeah. So, I guess I’m wondering, what was the value of bringing ORSC specifically as opposed to general coaching or mentoring to these groups of women? 

MR – I think it’s very much the systemic approach, I would say. And so you’re all part of the system, you all form part of the group, that you have responsibility to it’s also very much about personal leadership, I would say, and I think people were able to feel it for the first time. I think that’s most important and because they became more aware of their own role, the tolerance for difference increased and also their self-efficacy because, of course, we teach them about the ORSC instruments and so I always said, you know, when I’m gone here you know you can still tap into the wisdom of these ORSC tools and use them yourself, as much as you can of course and of course I am here whenever you have questions, but they learned something! 

KC – There’s probably something quite empowering about that, knowing that they can be their own coach and work systemically. 

MR – Yes, and that is also one of the cornerstones of the foundations, to self-empower women. 

KC – So important. I sometimes say I’ve done a good job as a coach when my client no longer need me because they’re out in the world doing the work themselves and it sounds like that’s what happened here as well, they were empowered to go out and hopefully spread this work as well in their own way. 

MR – Yes, yes. 

KC – I’m wondering, because it sounds like this was a big learning for the groups of women but also so much for yourself. What was one of your greatest learnings from this experience? 

MR – Well. A lot of learnings. One is meet the clients where they are. Have patience and drop your own expectations. And one thing, and I also remember that from my own supervisions, that parallel process is so, such a huge and important topic. So what you really sense in your own body is also probably happening in the system, how do you work with that? So that was a great insight to me and often I had to take charge as well. So I’m thinking about, you know, easy commands. So bring back what is happening in the system to the client’s agenda again. So that was a great learning for me as well. 

KC – Easy command is one of my favorites. 

MR – Holding the mirror all the time. Yes, it has so many layers. 

KC – Yeah. I guess easy command is one of those ones that, it’s important as a coach sometimes to hold rigor but not always easy if we’ve been brought up in a culture that tells particularly women to be nice. And to be quiet. And so I sometimes struggle with easy command or rigor but I’m sure you’re also modelling that as a coach to these women, empowering them to own their easy command in whatever way they stand in that space. 

MR – Yes, yes I remember one lady in the group, she was the oldest, a Moroccan lady, and there was a tendency to speak what was going on in the group but also very much what was going on for her, so sometimes I really needed to take charge and say you know, this is one voice, thank you very much, and…. So what’s going on in the group here? So respect would you like to step in here? Curiosity, what’s going on for you? And then that really helped to learn what was going on in the system, and then I would of course bring that back to the essence and say ok, what I hear is blah, blah, blah, and then we would go on. So making small steps and really meet the client where they are. 

KC – Yeah, making small steps I think is so important, the bigger the system and perhaps the more complex the system, the slower that shift, that two degree tiller shift. But I’m sure over time you start to see shifts? 

MR – Yes, and I really needed to be patient so I also tend to tilt over to the left brain side I would say, you know, very much on the focusing on the doing part and the getting achievements, whereas it was so much more important to really see the group as a whole and work with that. So great learning for me, I’d say. 

KC – Powerful stuff this. And I wonder that revealing the system to itself, this diverse section of strong women, what was the value in revealing the system to itself? 

MR – I think the biggest insight to me was that women became so much self-aware, you know? I think when you’re under pressure all the time in your home country you’re not able to develop as a whole human being and then being here in a group for the first time and building up a life also allows women to see other parts of themselves they hadn’t seen before. And how do you work with that? How do you bring your whole self to the group? What does that mean for the group as a system? It’s very much about maturity as well, I think, for the foundation it was very important to go to a next stage, I would say, in the corporate world we would say like a startup that is going through a scaleup phase, and the same is true for this foundation. 

KC – I think that parts of self-piece is the gift that keeps on giving with this work, for both the coach and the clients, because we start to realize we have more range and I wonder how much of a gift this has been to these women, now knowing that they have this range inside of them that they can go out and use in this new, unfamiliar landscape. 

MR – Yeah, absolutely, I agree. 

KC – What’s next for you Mélanie? You’ve got so much passion and drive for this project. 

MR – Yes, well, I’m building up my practice as well, next to my job, my current job I would say. And what I try to do is to have at least one client that puts social contribution first. So in the beginning of this year, for instance, I coached a supervisory board of a foundation that gives support to refugee students and professionals in their studies and helps them find suitable employment on the Dutch labor market. So you can imagine that helping Ukrainian students, at the moment, is also part of that. 

KC – I was going to ask you what you’d love to see happening in our global community and right now it feels, this feels a topical conversation, helping people to find their way in countries that may not be their own. And so what would you like to see happening in this wonderful world of ORSC in our global community given what’s going on in the world? 

MR – Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that we really need to keep supporting those ORSC coaches wherever they are, whether they’re in Ukraine or in Russia. I think we’re brought up as change agents, you know, we bring self-empowerment, we bring compassion, we bring interconnectedness and I think that is what the world needs. So, well, I really take a strong stance in that regard that we really keep supporting those change agents in our ORSC community, most importantly I would say. 

KC – Supporting our change agents around the world. What’s a piece of advice you would give someone listening to this podcast who’s perhaps never thought about working with ORSC in this way, in these kinds of communities? What would be some advice you’d offer? 

MR – I think it starts with ourselves, you know, to be self-aware. To know what you’re good at, what you can bring. Reflect upon your authentic self, I would say, and how you can use that in your ORSC work. So for instance what I notice, it really helps me to coach people that play an important role for helping refugees, for instance. Of course I also contribute by collecting stuff in my home, giving money or, you know, giving stuff that people really need, then I know my strongest asset is really helping the lighthouses that are doing the actual work in war zones or in very difficult places. Yes, that’s my approach and I think with a little bit of reflection for each of us, how you can best contribute, well, then it’s ok already and I really believe in the ripple effects, you know, we should be those lighthouses and bring some love to the world so we can make next steps. 

KC – I love that, we should be those lighthouses so we can bring love to the world. My gosh, that’s important. 

MR – Yes, it is. Absolutely. 

KC – Thank you so much Mélanie for this gorgeous conversation and also for what you’ve been bringing to the world. As you say, it really is a ripple effect what you’ve been doing with these women and beyond, on the podcast today I’m sure you’ve inspired many people to go out and make a difference in the way that they can. I think this is where the work truly excites me, when we’re thinking about those ever wider systems and we keep zooming and zooming and zooming. Yes, let’s keep pushing that ripple effect. 

MR – Yes, thank you very much Katie, it’s such a pleasure to contribute and be in your show! 

KC – Thank you Mélanie, take care. 

[Music outro begins 22:50] 

KC – The Worldwork project is a key element in the ORSC certification journey. It allows students to apply the ORSC materials in the real world and develop themselves as change agents. At CRR Global we hold all our students as change agents and train them to be conscious of what impact they want to make in their world. We believe that everybody’s impact –whether conscious or unconscious— sends ripples out into the world. It’s up to all of us, as world workers, to keep our communities safe and healthy. For more information about Worldwork and ORSC certification do check out CRRGlobal.com/course/ORSC-certification. We believe relationship matters, from humanity, to nature, to the larger whole.