Worldwork Bonus: Championing emotions in chinese corporations

In this collection of bonus episodes, we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork, which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world, whether we are conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with self. Across the course of these 5 bonus episodes, you will be hearing from Worldworkers from across the globe, who have all used ORSC tools in very different ways tools to serve their wider communities. 

In this episode, Katie talks with Jie Zhou about her Worldwork project: championing emotions in Chinese corporations. Jie’s project was inspired by her experiences living and working in China. From a young age, Jie was encouraged to keep positive AND negative emotions to herself, especially in the workplace. Her world work project aimed at encouraging her, her colleagues and her clients to speak out more about various emotions and expectations in order to create deeper mutual understanding and better relationships.

Jie Zhou is a leadership trainer and team coach and CRR Global faculty. After working for 20+ years in government, start-up and multinational corporations, she realized the value of unleashing individual and team leadership potential. Encouraged by her hands-on coaching and training experiences for her team, she made career change from Strategy, Market & Technology Head to a freelance coach and trainer. She has a bachelor degree of finance from Fudan University and an MBA from Darden Business School at University of Virginia, USA.

The Worldwork Project is a key element in the ORSC certification journey. It allows students to apply the ORSC™ materials in the real world and develop themselves as change agents. At CRR Global we hold all our students as change agents and train them to be conscious of what impact they want to make in their world. We believe that everybody’s impact –whether conscious or unconscious— sends ripples out into the world. It’s up to all of us, as world workers, to keep our communities safe and healthy. For more information about World Work and the ORSC Certification programme click here.

 We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

Transcript

Key 

KC – Katie Churchman 

JZ - Jie Zhou

[Music intro 00:00 – 00:06] 

KC – Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast Worldworks Special. We believe relationship matters, from humanity to nature to the larger whole. I’m your host Katie Churchman and in this collection of bonus episodes we’re looking at the concept of Worldwork which embraces the idea that we are continuously impacting the world whether we’re conscious of it or not. Whilst Worldwork can involve big acts of altruism and community spirit, it always starts with the self. Across the course of these five bonus episodes you’ll be hearing from Worldworkers from across the globe who’ve all used organizational and relationship systems coaching tools in very different ways to serve their wider communities. In this episode I’m talking with Jie Zhou about her Worldwork project, championing emotions in Chinese corporations. Jie is a leadership trainer and team coach and member of the CRR Global faculty. After working for 20+ years in government, start-ups and multinational corporations, she realized the value of unleashing individual and team leadership potential. Encouraged by her hands-on coaching and training experiences for her team, she made a career change from Strategy, Market & Technology Head to a freelance coach and trainer. Jie’s project was inspired by her experiences living and working in China. From a young age Jie was encouraged to keep positive and negative emotions to herself, especially in the workplace. Her Worldwork project aimed at encouraging her, her colleagues and her clients to speak out more around various emotions and expectations in order to create deep and meaningful understanding and better relationships. So without further ado I bring you Jie Zhou. 

KC – Jie, welcome to the Relationship Matters podcast! I’m so happy to have you on the show. 

JZ – Thank you so much Katie, I feel so honored to be invited, I’m very excited right now. 

KC – Likewise! I’m excited to dive into your Worldwork project and I guess I want to start by asking you what initially inspired your Worldwork project? 

JZ – Well, first of all, my Worldwork project is about naturally show and talk about emotions. And it’s not a tangible thing, it’s not a course or a workshop, I just want to blend in my daily life and work into it. So the reason why I picked this one is because two things. First of all on a personal level because I used to realize that I don’t have any emotions. I was like a robot. I couldn’t feel joy, I couldn’t feel sad. I was telling myself you must be wrong with something, so that’s why I came to coaching and finally healed myself. I think that it will be beneficial to others who have similar problems. The second one is on the organizational level because over the years I do notice that a Chinese corporate environment because we avoid those positive and negative emotions. We naturally avoid talking about the real conflicts, real issues which make the organization less efficient. So that’s why I also want to put emotion education, I want to bring more emotion education into the corporations so that people can feel relaxed who work together more closely, that’s why I picked this one. 

KC – That’s really interesting, so this was both a personal journey around how you understand your own emotions, and also a professional journey in terms of that educational piece? 

JZ – Yeah. People say that you do this, sometimes people pick our purpose from our pain so I suffer from this, that’s why I feel the calling. 

KC – Purpose from pain. I often say to my coaching clients, we’re drawn to the things that we need the most, and so I certainly am someone who needs coaching, I didn’t find it by accident! 

JZ – I totally agree. 

KC – So, your title Jie was Naturally Show and Talk About Emotions in China, and I’m wondering what you mean when you say naturally? 

JZ – In Chinese culture we are not encouraged to show emotions, regardless, sometimes, sometimes, regardless if it’s positive or negative emotions. I’ll give you an example that you can probably more understand what I mean. In China every kid knows one proverb – ‘虚心使人进步，骄傲使人落后’ - modesty makes one go forward, arrogance makes one lack behind. So, when I was a kid I got number one in class final term exam. I was happy, right? So I went home and showed it to my mom and she would say: Jie, remember this. ‘虚心使人进步，骄傲使人落后’. The kid just feels happy, right? Cannot tell the difference between arrogant and proud, but somehow I told myself I couldn’t feel happy, I shouldn’t feel happy. If I do feel happy I could not show, so the result, kids know this and when we go to the workplace we know that we should not feel happy or proud of ourselves but confused about this sometimes, and also people don’t acknowledge each other and actually we are very good at criticizing ourselves. 

KC – That’s fascinating, that piece around the fear of arrogance kind of pushed you towards hiding all emotions, whether they be good or bad. 

JZ – Often time we have a pair of adjectives to describe one thing. I realized this when I started to really master English. I noticed in the English vocabulary you have neutral words to describe certain things. But we often have a pair, one is positive, one is negative. But how do you know, right? This kid is feeling arrogant or proud? We don’t know. When I was a kid, at least, I didn’t learn how to tell the difference. 

KC – That’s such a good point and I realize two moments ago I said oh often emotion is good or bad, and even putting the words in those categories in itself can be quite a challenge for someone, because then they feel like well I can’t show this emotion because it’s bad. But what makes pride or happiness good or bad? I guess it depends sort of where it comes from and then how you show it and talk about it which was a big part of your project, right? Showing and talking about emotions. 

JZ – Yeah. Because the way you show it, really feel relaxed and you show it, then people can know, right, then we can talk about it. So, it’s not easy. And also negative emotions are, in Chinese culture they really value harmony. We don’t want conflict in public. If something happened we usually want to prefer some senior or someone that everybody acknowledges to talk to the people in private first, get aligned, and then all the people talk together to make a final conclusion. So negative emotions like anger, fear, vulnerable things, sadness, are even more difficult to show and talk about it in public. 

KC – Mmm. That’s a good point about how this idea of the binary positive/negative, I guess it changes depending on what culture you’re in because in some cultures vulnerability is valued and seen as a good thing, potentially. And yet, you were just saying there vulnerability might be seen as a negative thing so certainly hide that if it shows up. 

JZ – Yeah. I had thought that Western culture is more like embracing the negative emotions until last year, I learned a course of Brené Brown, according to her showing vulnerable is also not valued in Texas when she was a kid. Also she mentioned in the book Daring Greatly, she also mentioned that a lot of negative emotions are not encouraged in Western culture. 

KC – I think we all have our different ways of avoiding negative emotions. Over here in the UK we have this terrible habit of bantering. And quite often if something’s up that’s maybe a bit vulnerable, people will make jokes. So that it stays on the surface, the conversation, as opposed to actually getting to the emotional core of the content. And banter can be playful but at it’s worse it can be quite aggressive, but I think in the UK that’s our way of diverting attention from things that might be hard to hold and to talk about, particularly with a younger men, it’s become quite a common way of… bantering on the surface but never quite dealing with what’s happening underneath. 

JZ – That’s another way of avoiding. 

KC – Yeah. So I’m wondering, with your project, what did you learn about showing and talking about emotions? Because this is a big topic to look at and uncover. 

JZ – Yeah. So, my project was in summer time 2020, it’s almost 2 years, so what I’ve learned so far – I do a few things to work on that. The first one is I do DTA around silence because I think majority of Chinese are introvert. Introverts feel strong emotions, they don’t show, they don’t necessarily show in the face. It makes it really hard to read emotional field but one thing that often happens in team coaching or in training is silence because they need time to think about it, sometimes they need to gather courage to decide whether to speak up or not. So as a coach what I see and hear is silence in the room. It’s not easy to read what’s really going on in the silence because sometimes my questions is not clear, sometimes they think they need to think about it and sometimes they just feel edgy whether to talk or not, right? So during DTA I do silence every single time. I ask them what shall we do with the silence? The first reaction usually is ok coach, please call out people that you want them to talk. I say no, I won’t do that because in that way you guys will feel pressured so that you probably don’t want to speak out the truth. I will never, ever call out a name. Usually the DTA is ok, I’ll wait for you guys 10 seconds and then I will further ask what’s going on with the silence? And you guys need to tell me what shall I do. So this is usually the DTA I do. 

KC – That is a brilliant idea and really powerful question because it values silence as a tool or a technique in its own right which, often as coaches, particularly in the West we tend to jump over the silence and let’s ask another question, that’s certainly something I struggle with and actually to your point, what might emerge in the silence if we allow for that to happen? 

JZ – Exactly. It’s like a brewing alcohol. Emotions take time to brew it. As a coach we need to give time. I think silence is very juicy because something is brewing. I’m happy with it, actually when that happens. And I, like I said, in Chinese vocabulary we have a pair of words right, so for silence we have 沉默 (Chen Mo) & 冷场 (Leng Chang), “Chen Mo” means nobody talks, no sound, “Leng Chang”  means cold field, like you said, once you use the “cold field”, you want to add something hot – right? You wanna jump in this? So I also made a DTA with the group. I’m going to write down “Chen Mo” I will not use “Leng Chang” because it’s not about cold or hot. So I think the wording also is very important. I try to use neutral words as much as possible. 

KC – It’s a good point because words are loaded and I didn’t even think about how when language like silence translates, it can mean something slightly different in a different language and how that might have an impact on how the room interacts with silence. 

JZ – In Chinese context “Leng Cheng”, the cold field is much more common. So, I do DTA and after that I do different things depending on different quality of the team connection. From assessment if I feel the team is already having good trust I will do my land, meditation and even my mansion meditation because I think often time is the consensus level reality causes the emotions because consensus level we can easily get this agreement. I want this benchmark, I want this deadline, I want you to do this, I don’t want you to do this, these are the consensus level. But people forget to look at essence level and the dream level. Why you want this?. Why it’s important to you. How you want to be with this project. Always this goal. People forget about it and deep down that’s the ultimate motivator, right? So in my land basically you’re telling other people what kind of person you are. What are you afraid of? In my mansion meditation it’s actually about what’s your ideal self? What’s the one that you wanna try but you never tried? And also the one that is on the dark side. And in team coaching I do tell people that in mansion meditation, share what you want to share. You don’t need to share everything. And very interesting that people often time will mention the outrageous self, the one that they wanna try but they never show. But emotion wise, often time you can see the struggles when that really happens so sharing this really helps people to look at essence level and dreaming level so that they can understand each other more, so that’s what I do, a lot of emotions can be provoked during that exercise as well. 

KC – I love that you’ve called it a meditation. I know often it’s referred to as a visualization and that felt like a deliberate choice because it is, in many ways, a meditation in terms of connecting with one’s self, right, finding out where you are before then we connect back together as a team. 

JZ – Yeah. And I know meditation is kind of a weird word in Chinese corporate environment because it’s not common so often time I will also say let’s do an imagination exercise. Let’s test your imagination power! So I do this kind of trick. 

KC – And I’m wondering why do you feel it’s important to champion emotions in Chinese organizations in particular, why do we need this now perhaps more than ever? 

JZ – Because, a few things. The working pace in China is getting faster and faster, very fast. We have 996 working culture here, means 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. 

KC – Wow, oh my gosh. That is long. 

JZ – Yeah it’s long. In some industry, not every industry but some. So when people working so busy and so fast, people get really busy so they don’t have time to pause and feel the emotions. Emotions are triggered by unmet needs which often time in unconscious level meaning it’s not in the mind. But there’s wisdom there, right? If you don’t bring all of your wisdom together you cannot be much effective, right? So this is very important. Second thing is because in Chinese environments negative emotions aren’t encouraged which means people are going to avoid the real problems and you cannot avoid this because these days in VUCA era you have to work with other people. When you feel that you don’t want to talk at all how can organizations become effective? The third thing is because I said before that Chinese are mostly introverts. Introverts talk a lot when they feel excited and feel relaxed so naturally show and talk about emotions mean that people can feel relaxed and talk about the real problem and bring over the wisdom. Think about the power it can do! 

KC – I’m so intrigued by what you said around Chinese people are naturally introverts. Do you feel like those ways of showing up are often culturally created because I was living in America and I’d say probably the opposite is true, quite a lot of people in America are extroverted and I wonder just how you feel culture impacts that sense of how we show up and perhaps with our emotions. 

JZ – I think definitely, because I used to live in the States for 2 years, I noticed that American kids are encouraged to talk, like public speech when they are very very young, the Chinese are not. So there’s a cultural difference. Probably in America’s eyes, 99% of Chinese are introverted. To us, I remember the first few days in the States I was amazed at how wow those guys, they are really so good at talking. They could talk for so long. I was amazed. Definitely there’s a cultural difference, but one thing I want to make is cultural difference, usually, again, is consensus level reality. Like chopsticks and forks – it’s consensus level right? There’s the tools we use to eat. A few years ago a luxury brand made a commercial featuring a Chinese lady using chopsticks to eat pizza clumsily. This commercial made a PR crisis for them in China because people are pissed. This is kind of disagreement consensus level, right? 

KC – Yeah. 

JZ – But when you look down, wow. It’s all about not, avoid getting too hot from the food, right? It’s the same. Human beings are the same at essence level, it’s the same. But at consensus level there’s cultural difference. We need to look at more of it at essence level. 

KC – That is a fantastic analogy and I think what I’m hearing from you is when we get to this essence level by showing and talking about emotions, we can then connect on a much deeper level and with so many different people from different backgrounds, in a way that we can’t at the fork/chopsticks level. 

JZ – Yeah. Definitely. Because I work in the MNC for many years, one thing that Western managers struggle with is the silence in the meeting room. They either think that Chinese are saying yes by being silent or they think they just don’t have opinion about it but it’s a consensus level reality about how many seconds you wanna wait because deep down people do have opinions they do wanna show, right? 

KC – So, with regards to, you said when you were in America you thought wow, everyone’s so good at speaking. What’s the flipside, in China do you think people are better in general, and obviously we’re generalizing, at being with the silence and listening? And creating space? 

JZ – Yeah. In general, yes. That’s the case. But sometimes they put themselves into a position that they give too much space. They forget to express themselves. So there’s always an ideal zone but often time people go to the other extreme. It’s arts, it’s not science. 

KC – I’m always curious about the middle path because we do feel so divided in so many ways and we end up in these binaries ways of being and actually what’s the middle path of being for many of our intercultural, multicultural teams? As opposed to the American way or the Chinese way, what’s the space in between that brings value from both? 

JZ – I would call it third entity values. When you do have a team, whether you’re from any European countries or Asian countries or African countries, what you guys wanna do? What behavioral culture do you want to have? That’s just the third entity cultural or values. We don’t need to learn like Chinese way or American way, no need. What you guys want? that’s the value of coaching. 

KC – Yeah, what together in this unique team do we want to value and hold as our communication styles? 

JZ – Yeah. The one that you feel relaxed and comfortable so that you can naturally show emotions and talk about the real issues. 

KC – That’s a really curious statement around feeling relaxed and comfortable because I think that’s true for everyone, whether introvert, extrovert or ambivert, somewhere in between, because I know I can maybe talk too much when I’m not comfortable and relaxed and on the flipside, as you say, some people then step back, they step out of the conversation because they’re not comfortable and they’re not relaxed, so creating this kind of space can maybe allow lots of people, regardless of their communication style or cultural background, to lean in to these maybe more challenging emotions. 

JZ – Yeah. 

KC – I’m really curious about the practicalities of this, helping teams to unlock their emotions. Because I’m sure it’s quite different if you’re working with say, an established and psychologically safe team compared to a brand new team just getting to know one another. So how did you go about working with different teams in this way? 

JZ – Before I mentioned that for established teams the teams already have trust, I do the meditation, but for new team or team that have conflicts I do a sort of thing called a who I am exercise, I ask them to share a personal highlight and lowlight, and other people to see what’s important for this person which means their values, but I ask them to further work on the ideals and when I leverage the best of this value, what impact I have on people around me, but when I over-do it with negative impact I have on people around me. But in this way it feels safe and every time people cannot get enough time for this, because in daily life you don’t have this safe atmosphere to get constructive feedback. They’re hungry to get constructive feedback from other people. So the trust is built in this way. After this I’ll ask them to do, like really discuss the hot issues that this team is facing and, of course, like ORSC says, we can do emotional field at any moment, right, we don’t need to necessarily do exercise to work on emotions, even though Chinese are introverts, there are a lot of signals I noticed. Like looking down, like nodding, looking away, bit lips, nervous giggles, I see a lot of signals of people’s emotions and as a coach I have to decide which signal I want to pick and coach them. That’s really the juicy part because it’s all about the edgy thing, right, team coaching is coaching around edgy things so that people can go out of the comfort zone. 

KC – I love the fact that you look for these signals because it tells us that the emotions are there whether we’re conscious of it or not and they’ll come out in one way or another, whether it’s a knee shaking, or tapping of a pen, all these emotions are in the field and then as a coach you start to unfold what you see. 

JZ – Yeah. And interesting thing is often time people think they can hide their emotions. They think they can play poker face, but 99% of people, sorry, you are a terrible actor or actress. I just see tons of signals from you. 

KC – Yeah it’s funny what we’re not aware of, isn’t it? We think we’re so subtle sometimes and yet that eye roll says so much more about perhaps what we’re saying verbally. 

JZ – Totally. And also the voice, the pitch, the pace…. So many signals. 

KC – So is signals, after you’ve built trust and you mentioned a couple of ways, are signals often the way in in terms of encouraging teams to naturally show and talk about their emotions? 

JZ – I would say emotions, when I see the signals, it’s a door to their root cause. It’s a door to their edgy thing. Sometimes I do the mirroring of the signals but sometimes I just ask the questions like what’s going on here. What just happened? Because I know it’s something. Then the team will decide that whether they need to look at themselves before they talk or they start to tell the truth. So emotions is just a key or a door. 

KC – I love that, a door or a key. They feel, the way you sort of hold emotions, they’re like a gift as opposed to something to deal with. Emotions to you feel like a gift to the coach. 

JZ – Yes. And there’s so many of them. It’s like a, I feel like a child going to a candy bar, right? There’s so many things I can pick I have to decide which one to pick! 

KC – So, do you find you don’t get nervous when, particularly more of the say stereotypically negative emotions show up? Do you find yourself excited about that information as opposed to nervous and I don’t know what to do? 

JZ – You mean when negative emotions come out? 

KC – Yes. 

JZ – I personally in general don’t have a problem with this, I don’t know why. I just feel more relaxed than other coaches that I’ve had chance to observe. Actually when I was a kid I was told that I’m more direct than every Chinese. I’m not afraid of conflicts the value of talking about it directly and in public, so I don’t have a tendency to avoid but since I do coaching I do need to do self-management about like, I should not jump into conclusions about how this should be done. Or like what kind of emotions or beings should be criticized because I remember many years ago I would kind of favor such being like brave, if someone showed like cold feet I’d kind of, you’re not good enough for this one. So I need to do self-management about not to judge any emotions, that is my homework. 

KC – Mine too Jie, I mean I came into this conversation saying good and bad emotions and I think being aware of our biases, because people have many, is so important because yeah, I’m sure when, I mean I know, not I’m sure, I know when certain emotions show up, like aggression, I am less favorable in the way I hold that sometimes, compared to if, as you say, courage, bravery, vulnerability. And we’re then marginalizing emotions aren’t we? We’re not allowing all voices of that system, emotions, to be heard. 

JZ – Yeah. I know it’s easier said than done, even though I said I wanna provoke all the emotions, I do think I have bias for certain emotions like you just said. So, doing this work really needs a lot of self-management. 

KC – I’m wondering, because this started with you and your own work around emotions, how has doing the work out in organizations across China and beyond, how has that impacted the way that you now manage and talk about and show your emotions? 

JZ – Since I worked on myself I’m not a robot anymore. I give myself a lot of permission to feel first of all positive emotions, and then it naturally goes to I open up all my emotions. Neuroscience told me that it’s all linked. I think in my case I started to press my positive emotions, I kind of lost negative emotions all together, so since the positive comes back, the negative also comes back. 

KC – You couldn’t have one without the other. That’s the unfortunate part of this work, isn’t it? 

JZ – It’s a basket of gifts, you get none or you get them all. 

KC – You can’t just take the nice stuff, you have to take the dark stuff too. 

JZ – Yeah, so first of all I got all my emotions back. Then I learned how not to judge them and how to talk about it because ever since the moment I knew ah, there’s unmet needs behind the emotions I’ve kind of unlocked myself. Yes, I have unmet needs. So what are those needs? Then I will very soon focus my attention on unmet needs to I’m more free and I do more things. I can be more diverse and versatile because I try many more things than I did before. That’s how it’s changed me in the last few years. 

KC – That’s fantastic that piece you said there around I can be more diverse and versatile, I often think about range that we have and how much we don’t allow in ourselves because of these binaries, positive, negative, good bad or perhaps no emotions at all. And now as a coach you can flex your emotional muscles more in service, I guess, of your clients a lot of the time, you have that space. 

JZ – Yeah, I definitely consult my… when I learnt Co-active Coach I remember in process the client said that he hates people who look down on him and the coach, the trainer came over and told me curse him, curse him to do the role play. I was literally like sat there for five minutes, I just couldn’t do it. But now I can. 

KC - Now you would curse him. 

JZ – Definitely! I’m more diverse and versatile now. 

KC – It’s interesting isn’t it, this work, it sometimes feels like it’s outward as a coach helping others, but the more work we do I think outwards or inwards the more it sort of benefits everything else because I think to your point, the more emotions we can hold in ourselves the more we’ll allow in the systems we work with. 

JZ – I cannot agree more about it.

KC – So, there’s so much here. I’m wondering out of everything what’s your biggest learning from this project and how it’s emerged in your life? 

JZ – Well, when I first learnt ORSC I was questioning the feasibility in China. But later, very soon I heard that ORSC was very successful in Japan already at the time, that really inspired me because although we are two different countries with different cultures but we do share some same culture. If it can help Japanese people it definitely can help Chinese people. So I really practiced in the past years and the thing I learnt is it’s possible about emotion work I wanna do. Recently I also realized one thing that gives me more inspiration and believing. You know in ancient Chinese culture, for weddings we used the color red. The clothes of the bride are red, the decoration is red, the gift wrapping is red. We use black and white for funerals. 

KC – How interesting. 

JZ – In ancient China the clothes for funeral is white, the decoration is black. So if a bride shows up at the wedding in white she must be dead very soon. Chopped by the bride’s family. That’s how serious about the color in ancient China. But, think about it, from around I believe 1910 or 1920, started from Shanghai actually, brides started to wear white gowns, the western style gowns. So these days in China, that is in Shanghai, the wedding night, the bride has to wear three sets of clothes, the first one is white, western style, and the second one is red and the other one is any color. So if a strong culture can change like that, why not about emotions? Anything is possible, right? 

KC – I love that, I also didn’t know that at all. That’s a lot of dresses to get organized with for a wedding! 

JZ – Yes! Chinese brides are very busy. 

KC – I’m glad I got married over here, I think one was hard enough! 

JZ – I have a lot of belief in this Worldwork project. 

KC – I do too and I think it’s such important work that you’re doing in the world and I love that story about how the wedding dress color has changed in actually quite a short amount of time, I think it’s important for us to see how much change happens when we look back because sometimes it can feel like we’ve got a mountain to climb. But when we look back we see how far we’ve already come. Big changes, small changes, what might be possible if we bring more of this to the world, more of this work around showing and talking about our emotions. 

JZ – Like ORSC says, it’s a ripple effect, right? I do one thing but definitely it goes very, very far. So it’s possible and my work is meaningful. 

KC – It is. And emotions are a part of being human so I can only imagine that the more you do this work the more yourself you become and the more you empower other people to really own who they are in the world and the unique gifts that they bring. 

JZ – Yeah. At the end of the day we are human beings, regardless of the cultural difference. Human beings all have emotions. We all have unmet needs so let’s find out about it and be the one that we wanna be. 

KC – Yeah, and use it potentially as a source for connection. I thought that was so wonderful when you said about the chopsticks and the fork and actually underneath there’s so much that’s going on that’s the same. Thank you so much for bringing the work to the world, to your world and to the Relationship Matters podcast. I hugely appreciate this and this was a gorgeous conversation Jie. 

JZ – Thank you so much for your positivity, it’s really a very meaningful discussion about this one. 

KC – Thank you Jie. Take care. 

[Music outro begins 34:22] 

KC – The Worldwork project is a key element in the ORSC certification journey. It allows students to apply the ORSC materials in the real world and develop themselves as change agents. At CRR Global we hold all our students as change agents and train them to be conscious of what impact they want to make in their world. We believe that everybody’s impact –whether conscious or unconscious— sends ripples out into the world. It’s up to all of us, as world workers, to keep our communities safe and healthy. For more information about Worldwork and ORSC certification do check out CRRGlobal.com/course/ORSC-certification. We believe relationship matters, from humanity, to nature, to the larger whole.