Ep.12 The Inside Team Part 3: Expanding your range as a coach

Across 3 episodes in season 4, Katie talks with master coach Cynthia Loy Darst about the Inside Team: How To Turn Internal Conflict Into Clarity and Move Forward With Your Life. Based on ORSC concepts the Inside Team approach explores the collection of internal voices, parts, and beliefs that exist within us all and offers a framework for exploring these different parts of self so that we can explore our thought processes and better understand what these parts of self really want. By doing so your creativity and resourcefulness will have room to grow, turning internal conflict into clarity, negative thoughts into positive ones, and moving forward with more ease and fun in your life. In part 3, Cynthia and Katie look at how your inside team can help you to expand your range as a coach. Topics include:

• The value of expanding our range- for ourselves and our clients.
• Ways in which we can cross edges to explore secondary identities or parts of self that don’t feel so familiar.
• The importance of Edutainment- education and entertainment in coaching.
• How expanding our range and embracing more of who we are can help us to  more we hold more of the range that shows up in the clients we work with

Cynthia Loy Darst is known as a passionate pioneer in the world of Coaching and has a reputation for being both playful and inspiring. She works with all kinds of people to move them past their limitations and into more effective action. As well as being a senior course leader at CRR Global and CTI, Cynthia was one of the first eight to receive the designation of Master Certified Coach (MCC) from the International Coach Federation in 1998. Passionate about quality and excellence in the world of coaching, Cynthia was a founding member of the International Coach Federation and has served as President of ACTO (The Assoc. of Coach Training Organizations). Cynthia is also the Author of 'Meet Your Inside Team – How To Turn Internal Conflict Into Clarity and Move Forward With Your Life.' Her book is required reading for the EMBA program at Loyola Marymount University where she is a frequent guest speaker.


For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

Transcript

Key 

KC – Katie Churchman 

CD - Cynthia Loy Darst   

[Intro 00:00 – 00:09] 

KC – Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity, to nature, to the larger whole. I’m your host, Katie Churchman, and across the three episodes I’m talking with master coach Cynthia Loy Darst about the inside team, how to turn internal conflict into clarity and move forward with your life. Based on ORSC concepts, the Inside Team approach explores the collection of internal voices, parts and beliefs that exist within all of us and offers a framework for exploring these different parts of self so that we can explore our thought processes and better understand what these parts of self really want. By doing so your creativity and resourcefulness will have room to grow, turning internal conflict into clarity, negative thoughts into positive ones and moving forward with more ease and fun in your life. In part three we look at how your inside team can help you to expand your range as a coach. If you’ve not already listened to part one, getting to know your inside team, and part two, finding alignment with triggered selves, we’d highly recommend listening to those first. In this episode topics include the value of expanding our range for ourselves and our clients, ways in which we can cross edges to explore secondary identities or parts of self that don’t feel so familiar, the important of ‘edgertainment’ – education and entertainment in coaching, and how expanding our range and embracing more of who we are helps us to hold more of the range that shows up in the clients we work with. So without further ado I bring you, Cynthia Loy Darst. 

KC – Cynthia, welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast, part three! 

CD – Woohoo! Thank you Katie, right, part three, oh my god! What haven’t we talked about! 

KC – Well this is the big one. So, expanding our range as a coach, and we were just saying offline it kind of goes beyond that, expanding our range yes as a coach but also as a leader, as a partner, as a human being. 

CD – Yeah, exactly. So it’s an interest thing, you know, just the thought of it has me realizing that when we first start, let’s start with the part of being a coach. I’ve been a coach trainer for many, many, many moons now, you know, almost 30 years, and one of the things that always happens, it’s natural, it’s part of the learning curve, it’s that when we first start coaching and learning how to coach we’re so interested in doing it right and we’re very, it’s very, it’s actually very narrow, we want to be good, we wanna do it right, what’s the right question, how am I … and so this sort of very kind of uptight professional part of most people tends to come froward to try to do it all, right? You know. And one of the things that I know we work with in CRR and CTI is starting to consciously expand how we are in our coaching. You know, what’s the metaskill that we wanna bring to this particular interaction? 

KC – This really talks to some of the work we’ve both done in the world of theatre, because really that’s all about expanding our internal range so we can show up in different characters. But I wonder if you can sort of ease people over the edge about why that’s relevant here as coaches because I know sometimes theatre, drama, performance terrifies people! 

CD – Well that’s the thing. I have a belief that if you are sort of a one trick pony as a course, that’s you know, like if you tend to always do the same thing, same tone of voice, same kinds of questions with your clients, pretty soon you’re gonna bore them and they’re gonna leave. So I personally believe that if you want to have a thriving practice as a coach you get to play with your own range. You get to see ok, like I’m thinking in particular of a client I was working with and we were starting to have a kind of vulnerable conversation. And I could feel him kind of edging away from it and laughing, not really answering my questions, and so I very consciously went ok – come here, come here. Let’s kind of cuddle into each other and you’re gonna tell me what’s really going on. And that invitation to vulnerability, not just with my words but with my tone of voice, with my energy, it shifted the conversation, right, it shifted his permission. So one one side there’s that can I conscoisuly, consciously create a safe and vulnerable and cosy space, can I also create a space that’s outrageous and playful and what the heck, let’s just try something! Let’s just look in this other direction! Can I spark imagination in my clients? Right? And so sometimes that sort of just happens in a moment, and sometimes it’s a conscious act. And part of what I would want for every coach listening to this is to just kind of take a look where do I go on autopilot about how I coach, how I sound, what kind of energy I bring to my coaching? And where could I expand to invite my clients into a different kind of exploration, right? Because if I keep coming across the same way with my clients, they’re gonna keep showing up the same way. 

KC – Of course. It’s fascinating. It sort of talks to that idea that we have a default, a sort of autopilot way that takes over and it probably has served us relatively well. 

CD – It’s our primary. 

KC – Yes. 

CD – Right? 

KC – We wouldn’t be coaches, probably, with a practice, had it not been serving us thus far. 

CD – Absolutely. 

KC – To the principle of emergence, systems are in a constant state of emergence and so to be truthful with that and dance with that we’re gonna need to stretch and flex too. 

CD – Yes. 

KC – That’s so interesting. So Cynthia, I’m curious, because I imagine some people then might push back and say yeah but that’s not authentic for me to be playful, that’s not who I am, you know, that might be Cynthia’s way but that’s not my way, so what would you say? 

CD – Yeah, you’ve forgotten what authentic is. You’ve forgotten what authentic is. So, check it out, sometimes if I am really in my primary and this is the way I do things, this is the way I operate, and I know I’m smart and so I talk like this. So if I’m here I want you to notice that yes, you’ve crafted that over a lot of time, chances are that this is primary because when you were very young you got points, kudos, admiration for behaving in certain ways and not behaving in other ways. So fine, I understand that, but let’s imagine that you were that child who when your parants said don’t be so loud, you need to behave now, you need to be playful, oh come on, you’re smarter than that – whatever it is, it’s like whatever information you took in started creating this primary identity. And yes there’re parts of you that just came out of the womb a certain way. But let’s take a look. So now for me to start having some range, not me personally, but let’s say I’m a person who got a whole lot of information about how important it was to be professional and smart. Let’s just say that that’s me, right? And here I am suggesting this ridiculous idea of expanding your range. So let’s take a look. What’s the edge? What are some little edges that I might need to cross? Knowing that as I start to play with this, it’s gonna feel a little awkward. It’s gonna feel surprising, it’s gonna feel like oh my god, what will I think? That’s normal edge behavior. So what I would want for every person listening to this is permission to explore themselves, permission to find out what your range is. It’s not my range. It’s your range. What are the parts of you as a child that you love playing with when you play pretend? Were you the scary monster? Were you the good guy that came running in on the… you know, whatever the parts of you that would love to come out and be engaged in this kind of conversation. 

KC – This is fascinating because I think it talks to the fact as well that just because they’re not our primary now doesn’t mean they’re not a part of us, it’s just a part that’s not so familiar in this moment, in this now. But maybe in a future, 10 years down the line, you’ve worked that part so much that does become your primary. 

CD – That’s right. Or at least becomes very accessible. And by the way we’re not talking about giving up your primary. I’m not saying don’t be, don’t look smart and professional, I’m not saying that at all. What I am saying is have accessible to you, have in your toolkit, some other possibilities of how to work with people and how to stimulate their creativity. 

KC – And so, thinking about sort of the system at large when you think about coaching, what are some of the marginalized aspects secretly showing up over and over again, like parts that people feel like I can’t bring that into coaching, that wouldn’t be professional. 

CD – Ok, so let’s see if I can make a list, right? So one is the part that’s kind of clueless. Kind of like wow, it sounds like you’re really stuck in this situation – how might you work with it? 

KC – Ah, the not knowing coach, I love that. 

CD – Kind of like wow! Yeah, and like really imagining a kind of cluelessness, a kind of wondering. Another part, see for me one of the things, and this won’t surprise anyone, that I didn’t know how to bring was what I would call sort of a zen space. The one who really listens. The one who can calm things down. The one who’s not rushing, right? My natural go to was ok what do we want today, what are we gonna do, what’s important here. Like it was very forward moving, very pushy. And guess what, that’s not always welcome! So I personally had to learn about much more spaciousness. Much more trusting the process. Much more a sense of partnering my client, like an ICF core competency piece, all of that was a stretch for me! For someone else the stretch might be, they might listen all day but at one point do you say to a client pause for a moment, I’m getting a little lost here in your story, what’s important to you about what you’re bringing here? Or what do you actually want from our conversation today? And to bring in a kind of intrusion and a kind of direction that can really serve the coaching relationship. 

KC – I love the range you just showed us there, like the high energy and the benefits there and being able to jump in and also that low energy, and I guess it speaks to the fact that we both started in industries and also grew up in cultures where high energy is seen as good or more so and low energy bad, but there’s a real positive in low energy too. And also high energy can be negative if it’s maybe aggressive or overwhelming, so I loved where you went in that low energy space because it was still very engaging and connected and present. 

CD – I would actually add the term, not so much low energy but almost like a receptive energy, a pulling in energy, rather, it’s not just like [snoring noise] I’m over here asleep, I wanna make sure we’re not saying that. It’s being fully present but being fully present energy. 

KC – And how we can bring just all these different parts of the self for different purposes, and it’s not right or wrong, good or bad, this is how we should be as a coach or this is how I should be as a trainer, it’s the actually the more we can do the more we can hold. 

CD – Yeah, exactly! And the more we bring a range, bring some playfulness, the more that invites clients to do the same thing. 

KC – What are some of the edges you’ve had to cross then, to expand your range? Thinking about your inside team, what are some of the players that felt more reluctant to come out as a coach? 

CD – Well the very first one, the very first was about learning how to bottom line and learning how to be spacious. Those were the kind of two that were like blerrhhhhh. Right? I was also, this surprises people sometimes, I was also – oh I don’t want to say anything rude on this, I was also timid, let me put it that way! I was very nice, I was very charming and pleasing, I was terrified to be bold and forthright. Some people, this suprises people because now it’s one of my signature pieces that I will say something that may not be well received, and part of what’s going on now is like, I don’t know, like let’s imagine that I’m working with a client and they are, they’re just really in a, they’re in a place where they’re just kinda hating the world and they’re taking everybody wrong and they’re doing this, and we’ve worked with them, we’ve gone here and there and explored it and tried to clear it, and then at some point I might say ok, I’m about to say something very bold to you here, you ready? And hopefully they’ll go ok… and you’ll say how is it to be a martyr? 

KC – Wow. 

CD – What’s that like for you? What is it that it gives you? Like actually wanted them to kind of, wanting it to hit them, wanting it to have an impact and to kind of upset their system a little so that they take a look from that perspective to see if that’s so for them. 

KC – Disturbance as ally. Wow. 

CD – Disturbance as ally, actually bringing it. 

KC – Yeah. I think that must be an edge for me because I’m imagining saying that and oooh. And, there are moments where sometimes it needs to be said, otherwise they end up going round and round in circles. It’ll be on soon, an episode with Faith around idiot compassion and how you know, it’s not kind to let people go in these circles. And I guess, if our default isn’t generating anything different than the system we’re working in, then is that a signal you’d say to bring something else, bring another part of your inside team? 

CD – Yeah. Well, you’re just reminding me, I was just having a conversation with some fabulous leaders who’d had a rough week and their tendency is to, when people were in trouble their tendency was try to be more pleasing and explain it better and do stuff like that, when that’s not what that was needed in this room! What was needed was the authority, was clear command, was a little bit more context on not explaining it, but actually working with the energy in the room through the course that they were doing, right, to actually like, let’s say that you’re training the toxins and someone goes I don’t know about this, I don’t think I like that at all. You could actually say, woah, look at this, what toxin are you embodying right now? 

KC – Yeah, that’s brilliant. 

CD – Right? And to have fun with it, rather than oh, you know, let me explain it to you. 

KC – Trying to fix and, yeah… 

CD – Right. 

KC – I wonder as well, some of our patterns from our education systems and sort of our traditional career paths about being right and fear of failure, how they can get in the way too. Because in some ways we’re conditioned to not, to want to know. If someone asks us a question my gosh, we should have the answer. 

CD – Well what you’re also people to there is that here we are, going along, minding our own business as a coach, something happens either with a client or maybe in a course we’re leading or a team we’re working with, and all of a sudden someone disagrees, let’s say they disagree with what I’m doing, they don’t like it. What can tend to happen in the coaches seat is we can tend to get taken over by a part of ourself that is now trying to explain it and make it right and have it all be good, that’s a demonstration of our range that’s not particularly conscious. Right? There’s nothing wrong with being able to explain something, that’s great, but if I go into an unconscious retreat when I have a difficult system or a difficult client, I’m in trouble. If I can notice oh wow, I’m starting to get triggered here, I’m starting to be hijacked by this, how do I want to be in the face of disagreement? Maybe I’ll be playful. Maybe I’ll come in under and be a little bit more vulnerable and curious. Now whatever it is, but to have our range be more conscious rather than being unconsciously driven by getting triggered. 

KC – And so I kind of wish we had video for these podcasts because what the listeners aren’t seeing is how much you’re moving and how much that changes depending on which part of your range you’re showing up with. And so I wonder if you could talk more to accessing this, because it’s not just about thinking our way into the different parts of self, how do you sort of bring it in a different way that’s not default Cynthia? 

CD – Well, you know, so one of the things that you know about me is that I’m very kinesthetic, and so what that means, if somebody’s not familiar with that term, is my, so much of my information and language actually, it’s hard for me to talk if I have my arms to my side and I’m not… I have to move in order to think well! 

KC – That’s interesting. 

CD – It’s natural to me, right? So, what I would, let’s play a little game. 

KC – Ok. 

CD – Let’s play a little game you and I. And any listener who’s not hearing this in a car or something like that, play a little game with me! So let’s, if you have the space, go ahead and just stand up. Stand up and put your hands on your hips and just see what part of me, what does this naturally evoke in my, if I were working with a group or team. And even as I do this with you I’m noticing my voice lowering, feeling very grounded and centered. What are you noticing Katie? 

KC – Very grounded, it’s like my feet are going through the ground like tree roots. 

CD – Yeah, right! So this is perhaps one way to explore some range, great. Let’s try something else. I want you to turn one side to me and now kind of bend your knees and put your hands on your knees and kind of tilt your head down so that you’re kind of curled down, and now if this were to evoke something in you what might it be? 

KC – Oh that’s interesting, yeah, I already feel sort of I’m threatened by something, even though there’s nothing here, I’m really in like, I’m on the defensive. 

CD – Yeah. Right? 

KC – It’s so interesting, even my voice, it sort of feels like I don’t feel quite so confident anymore in what I’m saying. 

CD – Right, so check it out, part of what I’m wanting you to notice is let’s imagine that you’re working with a team and you start to feel threatened in some way. Or you start to, or you’re working with a client and you start to notice oh my, I’m kind of pulling my arms and my shoulders, what’s happening, right? Wait a minute – oh wow. Because that’s the information now, so let’s play with, I know it sounds amazing but kind of could be a ahh, I mean there’s actual research in case you’re wanting to know that your posture, your being, make a massive difference, and I’m forgetting the woman’s name right now who does a whole Ted Talk on it-

KC – Amy Cuddy, power posing. Yes. 

CD – Amy Cuddy, right! The power pose. So it’s a similar kind of thing. So even, I would recommend that if you’re ever having trouble with a group, that you take a moment to stand in a power pose, take a deep breath, see how you consciously wanna be, consciously, I keep coming back to this, because most of how we operate is not, it’s unconscious. It’s not a conscious choice, is what I mean. I’m not like, not like we’re unconscious, but it’s so, our primary is so automatic. 

KC – I always come back to that idea that, well it’s not an idea, the research that shows there’s more pathways running from the body to the brain than to the brain to the body. And that actually we’re not using this as a resource for changing our state. When I’m working with teams and, say, the sponsor has asked for, you know, people aren’t talking very much, it just feels like it’s an empty space, be aware of the physicality, if people are leaning back in their chairs, much less likely to get their voice in the room. And so as a smaller person I’m always on the edge of my seat because my voice is much more likely to get in, particularly as a coach, than if I’m leaning back. 

CD – Yes. 

KC – Although it was fascinating, talking to that very point, on the weekend I was leading geography and my co-leader mentioned that you sit forward a lot, what would it be like to explore that leaning back space and it just brought a very different, sort of more reflective energy. And so again, I was falling into my default pattern of being in, which isn’t wrong, but just knowing then when that becomes a sort of, it’s a pattern that then becomes so well worn, is it all you can do? That one trick pony. 

CD – That’s right, and you just did something Katie. So, even as you explained that, I’m noticing there’s quite a difference energetically in leaning back with the arms crossed in a way that kind of feels defensive or judgey, right? Or simply leaning back as a way, perhaps, to listen and receive. Like that’s, you know, these things are very subtle. 

KC – Yeah! And they show up on Zoom or whatever video platform you’re using, because I think we feel that’s been lost, but if I wanna be, I don’t know, giving my team a bit of space, I can always stand on the side, I don’t have to be right here. 

CD – That’s great, that’s wonderful. I’m suddenly imagining – so, for those of you listeing, what Katie beautifully demonstrated just here is she stepped back and sort of to the side of her camera which gave this open space in the room, fascinating, and then in the next moment leaned all the way forward so that her face took up the whole screen and it really is feeling like oh my god, I can see what you’re doing over there. 

KC – And it’s not right or wrong, it’s just the latter is probably going to be harder to find reflection from or to fade from. It’s gonna be harder to create space for your clients in that space. 

CD – Yeah. What a great thing. Thank you, I just learned something that I’m gonna use. 

KC – But it is interesting, isn’t it, because there’s so many patterns that we fall into and I think the brain wants to hold onto patterns, and so this work is never done, is it, we just have to keep reminding ourselves about this conscious and intentional choice. Choice points that we have. And so how do you remind yourself, Cynthia, you’ve done this now for a while, and so how do you stop yourself from falling into those grooves that have served you well? 

CD – Oh I do. I do fall into grooves, because you know, people know me as bold, playful, kind of obnoxiously loud sometimes, like they know, they know me this way. And so that’s my groove, right? That’s my groove. How do I make sure that that’s not the only thing, right? How do I make sure that I’m consciously, and part of it too, let me kind of go aside, is that if you think of, here we are on Zoom. We are so used to screens these days, so when we’re on Zoom it’s a little bit like we’re watching TV. We can’t help it, right? So what do we need when we’re watching TV? Well, if you’ve got someone over on the other side who just is coming off like a boring newscaster at a local station, that’s just so not gonna get the job done. So that’s why we love it when someone’s cat comes in the room, or someone’s child comes running in because they bring something, right? They bring something funny and interesting. So we need to be conscious in how we edgertain, how we work with this screen rather than be pissed off that we’re all on screens, right? To me, this is part of being a professional coach, is that we’re brining a playfulness, a use of this medium rather than tolerating it. 

KC – That’s such an interesting point. So, edgertainment – is that education and entertainment combined? 

CD – Yes. 

KC – Ok. And I’m curious because thinking about the way, often we’re very mindful of our space, when we’re in the room, how the chairs are laid out, is their light coming in, do we keep the door open – we maybe aren’t quite so thoughtful when it comes to our Zoom spaces or whatever video platform we’re using, and so that’s a really good point, we just deal with it. And so how can we be more conscious and intentional with this medium? 

CD – Right, I mean, I need to do some work myself, I look at my space and I’m like uhoh. 

KC – It’s your space, I like the lava lamp, you’ve got lots going on!

CD – Got the lava lamp, you know, but it’s like yes, how do we use this, how do we work with it, how do we make it so that when we’re working… this is not so much as with a client, but when we’re with a group and we’re with a team, how do we make it so that they stay engaged, and engaged, you know, I mean, think about those teachers in school that you had that engaged and think about the ones that just bored you silly. And so often the one that bored you probably talked like this, and they just kept saying the same thing, you know, then they would read their Powerpoint slides if they had slides, and they would just kinda- 

KC – Oh don’t, I can’t bear it! 

CD – Right! What is it? I don’t even know what you said cause I can’t hear it, it’s too boring!

KC – This is, I guess, pointing as well to the how. The how we do things in coaching is as important as everything else, the tools, the tricks and the education, how we deliver those messages matters. 

CD – Yeah. 

KC – And yet we often get so worried about I don’t know the steps or oh I don’t know the right question, but actually even if you have the perfect question, if you deliver it in that monotone voice then that’s not what they need. 

CD – I mean really, at the end of the day I would much rather have someone say in the evaluations, oh, she was kind of silly and playful and, you know, than she was so professional and boring, I just thought it was a great… 

KC – Well I guess to build on that, even, I guess you probably want a huge range, she was so professional, playful, joyous, silly, delightful, fun, strong, that’s what we’re looking for here, isn’t it? 

CD – Right. 

KC – And so what does that look like, Cynthia, when you’re leading with a co-coach, because I’m sure then there’s even more range playing with someone else’s range? 

CD – Yes, absolutely. So that it’s not, it doesn’t become a one woman show. It’s not about me being, you know, entertaining and tolerating my co-leader, it really, like, so at CRR the conversation is how does your relationship lead the course, right? Not just you and that other person, how does the relationship lead and so any time I’m in front of a room or Zoom room, how am I watching or listening to my co-leader? How am I building from them, creating from them, and like if I’m physically with someone, how am I making sure that there, like do I turn my intention to them when they’re doing something or am I over here looking at something else so that everyone’s watching wondering what I’m looking at. So, to me, and this is where our background in theatre comes in handy, because there is, if you’re doing any kind of front of room leading, if you’re working with a team or group there is a theatrical quality to that of how, where are you consciously drawing the attention of the group? Where do you want it? On your co-leader as they’re making a learning point? On you as you’re saying… you know? Are you demonstrating how to do a lands work piece or team toxins? How are you involving the whole room to do that, rather than just standing in a land with your back to everyone so that they can barely hear what you’re doing, right? Are you including? And so that’s the place that I would have people look, is your energy inclusive, encouraging, inviting, engaging, those are the things that you’re wanting no matter if it’s your one-on-one client, team, group, whatever. 

KC – What I love about co-coaching as well is that you get to play around with the roles as well, so it can be really easy, if someone’s particularly different, as well, from you, to lean into them for that, oh they’ll do that time keeping piece because they’re really rigorous, I’ll do the play because that’s more fun, and actually to hold each other accountable to lets stretch ourselves, I’m gonna take on the fun for the first half and you do the rigor. And then I guess we don’t get that role fatigue of uh, I’m always the one to have to pull the groups back. 

CD – Right? That kind of thing is particularly important to talk about. You’re reminding me of years ago, Grace Flannery and I, now that she’s gone. So, God she was brilliant at the ORSC work, she was just brilliant, and I learned so much from her. And, our natural inclination, I can be very, quite the timekeeper, quite the here’s where we’re going next, let’s move things along, right? And we would, you could feel our roles, me starting to pull more to rigor and time keeping, her starting to pull more to playful, silly, not really caring about the time. Well, if we didn’t catch that by the end of the second day we were barely tolerating each other. We’d get pissed off at each other. Right? So we had to consciously design how will we share the occupation of these roles. 

KC – Mmm. So expanding that range not only allows us to hold more in that relationship as co-coaches, co-leads, but then also to hold more in the group. And I wonder, sort of taking this further, beyond coaching, how has expanding your range helped in, say, your personal systems? Because I imagine this doesn’t just apply to holding more in our teams and getting more clients, I’m sure there’s a personal application too? 

CD – Oh gosh. Well, some of you may know my husband, David Darst, who is also an ORSC leader, a leader for CTI, he’s a professional coach. I used to refer to him, and on occasions still do, as a no waiting to happen. Anything that I would propose his first answer would always be no. Hey honey, wanna go out today? No. Hey, what if we plan a trip to… no. That was one, he over the years has taught me a whole new relationship with resistance and no. Now I understand that’s just him saying I’m not ready, I need more information, something like that. Now, some of you also know David Darst as being one of the most playful, creative, delightful course leaders you’ve ever seen. He sings, he dances, like he does interpretive dance as his co-leader is saying something, right? He does these wacky things. Well, how do those two parts reconcile? Mr No and weee, playful one. Those are different aspects of his personality, and he can, sometimes they’re unconscious and sometimes they’re very consciously brought forward. And one of the things that’s had our relationship thrive over time is that sometimes we both consciously bring forward certain aspects, right? 

KC – That’s gorgeous. 

CD – We bring forward love or we bring forward a playfulness. And what we’ve also tuned into is there is, there are times where his, some part of him is, and I start getting triggered and judgey, and… and if we’re not conscious about both having a triggered aspect, like being triggered with each other, than we can get into it. But if I can say woah, I’m starting to get a little triggered here, I’m noticing my judgey part coming up, if he, or if he can do that, wooo, it just opens up the space. 

KC – And I guess it really talks to IDIC, infinite diversity in infinite combinations, because then if we’re seeing that in your relationship, we’ll stay with that example, then it’s never gonna get boring is it because loads of different parts of you are gonna show up with, you know, I’m sure there are moments – 

CD – There are plenty of moments that are boring, don’t, don’t think they’re not! But it’s useful to notice. Now that we have, you know, once you have information, once you have some awareness it just really helps. It just really helps, yeah. 

KC – Yeah, and you can then sort of be like oh we’ve got role fatigue around this, oh we’ve fallen into a rut over the last 10 years, or why are you always the one that does that, why can’t I take on that? And so we’re both doing the work in ourselves but that ripples out into the systems in which we live. 

CD – Exactly. 

KC – So, I wonder, Cynthia, we’ve done so much sort of work around the inside team, and what’s sort of a final takeaway for why you feel this is world work? When we think about our inside team and we start to expand our range, why is this not just work for ourselves but work of the world? 

CD – Well, it’s quite an interesting question. Because you’re reminding me that developing the idea of inside team was my world work project. 

KC – Oh, how wonderful. 

CD – Right. Developing that idea. And what I notice is that, so here’s the thing. I think a lot of human beings don’t actually realize that they have different aspects of their personality. You might hear of someone who says this is just the way I am, this is just, don’t screw with me, this is the way I am. Right? Ok. Have you ever just taken a moment to look at what your thoughts are about the way you are? To notice the parts of you that have you be this way. Let me just say this a different way. In this world we, certainly in the United States, certainly in different parts of the world, we get so divided and we get so possessional – this is how it is, this is what I believe, this is du du du… my sense of that is that quite often that urgh, those positional parts are, they’re just parts of us, they’re just a very loud, dynamic voice, they’re certainly not all of us. They’re certainly not all of us. And when we can find other parts of our personality, other parts of our world view, I’m thinking about all of these hurricanes and floods and things going on in the world now, where we actually hear about neighbors helping neighbors and people working together, it’s not about what your politics are or what your religion is or what your color is, it’s like, I mean, I’m sure there are those things, however, in some situations people are coming together because they have such a common interest and they are not as bogged down by these other interests that they have. So, I don’t know if I’m saying this very well but I think the more we know ourselves and have the ability to navigate our own inside team, the more effective we are in relationship with others. 

KC – That’s a beautiful example. About how we do have that inside us and sometimes it takes a hurricane, a disaster like that to show us that we have that ability to get curious with someone who’s completely opposite from us. But that range is there, whether we wanna see it or not. 

CD – Right. 

KC – And do we let it stay dormant or do we bring it to life and, yeah, that’s beautiful. 

CD – So there’s something that I personally did recently. I have a nephew who’s political stance is, I would almost say entirely different than mine. 

KC – Ok. 

CD – Ok? So here’s what’s interesting is we actually have a lot of interests in common, but he posts political stuff on his Facebook page that are just, I’m just like oh good Lord could you please cut it, like, there’s a part of me that goes you idiot, you idiot. And for a while I was so pissed off by his political things that I didn’t even engage with him. Right? Then one day he, I think I just thought ok, what else is there, and just kind of reached out and said how are you doing? Just a little text, how’s it going? How’s life treating you? He sends me back this whole thing about he’s been dating someone and he’s engaged and she’s so smart and she’s a doctor and this and that, and they’re doing this, and I’m like oh my god, what they’re doing here is exactly what’s in line with my belief system. Not that that should matter, but all of a sudden I felt like I was back in touch with him, with his being, and that he is not the crap he posts on Facebook. That’s the stuff he posts. 

KC – And that’s one part of him. 

CD – That’s one part of him. 

KC – Yeah, that’s… yeah, if we’re gonna work with our own inside team I guess we start to see that everyone else has their inside team! 

CD – Right. 

KC – I remember Faith saying a stat that she holds to be true in her relationship with Marita, that if you love your partner I think 80% you’re doing really well, if you can’t stand 5/10% of them, that’s a pretty good ratio and it made me think of course, because we don’t love 100% of our own inside team so why would we. And I think just that awareness is very powerful because now we can hold the, you know what, maybe I don’t like that about you but there’s gonna be something else there that maybe we can align around. 

CD – There you go, I love that, that’s fantastic, and yeah, just love that. So we’re coming to the end of our time again today, any last questions or thoughts? 

KC – Yeah, I think in terms of that expanding your range as a coach and coming back to that place around we can hold more for our clients, like what does that really mean in terms of what then we’re able to bring to the world, when we’re able to hold more in the teams and the individuals and the couples that we work with? 

CD – It just has me realize that if I’m working with a client or team, and I’m always showing up the same way, they’re always showing up the same way, pretty soon we’ve kind of bored each other and I’ve not given them permission to explore other parts of themself. I’ve not given them permission to have new information come into the system and to expand our awareness of what’s here, who are we. Like that, I would want any team, group, client, individual to be able to notice the different parts of themselves, the different aspects, the different energies that they bring into their family or their work or their relationships, right? There’s something about that technicolor living, rather than just being in black and white with people. 

KC – And you made me think, yeah, if we’re judging the part of self, this maybe critical part of self, then are we going to be judging that in the teams? 

CD – Of course. 

KC – If we can hold that in a different way, maybe we don’t love it or like it but we align in some way, maybe then we can hold that in a different way with teams we work with. Thank you so much Cynthia, this work is so powerful. It is the work of the world and I often say the more I do this work the more myself I become, I think that’s very true about the inside team, right? It’s all there and it’s just whether we chose to look and explore and create that relationship or not. 

CD – That’s beautiful, Katie thank you so much for having me as your guest three times! It’s been wonderful to get to know you just a little bit and I appreciate our relationship and look forward to it growing in the years to come. 

KC – Yeah, and thanks for bringing all of yourselves, I feel like we’ve had so many different parts of Cynthia on the show so thank you so much for your vulnerability, your playfulness, your wisdom, your strength, your rigor, all of the above. Thank you. And take care and speak soon. 

[Music outro begins 47:557]

KC – I wanna say a big thanks to Cynthia for bringing so much of her range in these three conversations around the inside team. Here are my key takeaways. When we first start coaching and learning how to coach, we’re often focused on getting it right. Metaskills can help us to consciously expand our range as coaches so that we can chose which part of ourselves we wanna bring to any interaction. What energy is going to serve my client and what part of my range do I need to bring in order to create that energetic field? When we’re expanding our range it’s normal to feel uncomfortable and perhaps vulnerable. That is normal edge behavior that occurs when you cross into a secondary identity, or a part of you that feels less familiar. Edgertainment is a blend of education and entertainment. Brining diversity in our range, which might include playfulness or engagement, is a key part of being a coach. This is particularly key when working virtually. We can keep our clients engaged by stretching into our range when needed so we don’t just offer one version of who we are. There are many different aspects to who you are and the more that you can hold within yourself, the more you’ll be able to hold for your clients, the more we know ourselves and have the ability to navigate our own inside team, the more effective we can be in our relationship with others. The Inside Team and Cynthia’s book, Meet Your Inside Team: How to Turn Internal Conflict into Clarity and Move Forward With Your Life is based on concepts from the ORSC geography curriculum. For more information about the geography module and the ORSC series please visit CRRGlobal.com. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with your colleagues and friends so that we can continue to spread these ideas across the globe, and if you haven’t already, do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you never miss an episode. And for more information on the ORSC courses please visit CRRGlobal.com. For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time. We believe Relationship Matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole. 

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