In this episode, Katie talks with senior faculty member Maddie Weinreich about how we can bring more 'aliveness' to our most intimate relationships. This conversation introduces proven relationship skills and invites us to take a bird's-eye view of our partnerships. Themes across the episode include:
For more information about the Alive in Love program please visit: www.crrglobalusa.com/couples-workshop
Maddie Weinreich is one of CRR Global's most experienced coaches. While Maddie excels at coaching and training business teams, her passion lies in supporting couples to become the dynamic architects of their own relationship. She custom-designs coaching programs for couples to achieve the vision they have for their personal and professional lives together.
For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time
We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.
In this episode, Katie talks with senior faculty member Maddie Weinreich about how we can bring more 'aliveness' to our most intimate relationships. This conversation introduces proven relationship skills and invites us to take a bird's-eye view of our partnerships. Themes across the episode include:
For more information about the Alive in Love program please visit: www.crrglobalusa.com/couples-workshop
Maddie Weinreich is one of CRR Global's most experienced coaches. While Maddie excels at coaching and training business teams, her passion lies in supporting couples to become the dynamic architects of their own relationship. She custom-designs coaching programs for couples to achieve the vision they have for their personal and professional lives together.
For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time
We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.
Key
KC – Katie Churchman
MW - Maddie Weinreich
[Intro 00:00 – 00:09]
KC – Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity, to nature, to the larger whole. I’m your host, Katie Churchman, and in this episode I’m talking with senior faculty member of CRR Global Maddie Weinreich about how we can be more Alive in Love in the our most intimate relationships. This conversation introduces proven relationship skills and invites us to take a bird's-eye view of our partnerships. Themes across the episode include how we can take a more conscious approach in how our partnerships evolve; using coaching tools to give us a snapshot of where our relationship is right now and develop a vision of how it might be in the future; Learning how to address common pitfalls which inhibit trust and intimacy and the five elements necessary for a thriving, intimate relationship. Maddie Weinreich is one of CRR Global’s most experienced coaches. While Maddie excels at coaching and training business teams, her passion lies in supporting couples to become the dynamic architects of their own relationship. She custom designs coaching programs for couples to achieve the vision they have for their personal and professional lives together. So, without further ado I bring you Maddie Weinreich talking about Alive in Love.
KC – Maddie, welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast, always so happy to have you on this show.
MW – Katie it’s so good to be here with you, thanks for brining me back. I’m excited about where we’re going today.
KC – Yeah I’m so excited about this topic, my heart is buzzing. We’re talking about Alive in Love.
MW – This is work that i’ve been working on for the past maybe 20 years in terms of brining more aliveness to couples and their relationship so I’m very happy to share this with you and to our listeners.
KC – So, I’m curious about this title in this topic and what it means to be alive in love because I guess some people might think that’s a given, surely love brings aliveness?
MW – Well, it does. And often in the beginning of a relationship there’s a lot of passion, a lot of dopamine flowing in the relationship where we first meet people, over time that can start to dwindle and a part of what I take a stand for, what I’m passionate about is how can couples keep that passion alive, how can they keep that vitality alive in their relationship? And there are ways to do that.
KC – Because I think there is that initial, that initial buzz with so many things and then as we start to get to know one another maybe we stop seeing each other in the ways that we’re growing, changing and developing, so I am curios both for my own relationship and for our listeners, how can we keep this aliveness in our intimate relationships?
MW – Well, I first came to relationship systems coaching because I was interested in learning about this. As a little kid I would watch my parents have conversations or arguments and think oh my gosh, they both want the same thing but they’re not hearing each other and they’re missing each other, and so as a little kid I was out on a mission, looking for well are the couples that have vitality or aliveness or connection in their relationship? And if I stayed over at a friend’s house I’d look at their parents or my relatives, aunts and uncles or different people to see what was, what was that aliveness? And there are ways to do it. And through my first marriage that failed, it only lasted about 10 weeks, I thought like oh I’ll figure that out but I didn’t. And now I’ve been with my husband, my second husband for more than 40 years and we’ve raised two sons together, and I wouldn’t say that I have the answers completely but I’m still on the quest to find out.
KC – I love that. I love also your vulnerability that you bring to this conversation. I know sometimes when I’m working with couples there’s this sense that we’ve gotta obviously be in the perfect relationship if we’re doing couples coaching, but I guess what you’re saying is the journey that we’re on is exactly why we’ll be good couples coaches if we can see that and learn from that.
MW – Yeah. You got it. And the only way we really learn is by trying and sometimes failing and not doing so well and then figuring out well what would be better? So getting back on the horse, that sense of resilience is important.
KC – So I guess my first question is how do we know when we’re a little bit stuck and the spark is gone, because I guess we want to catch it before it can be too late.
MW – Yeah. And in my mind it’s never too late. If you’re willing to do the work. So sometimes it just takes more work to kind of change the relationship into a different or better direction. But noticing if you’re having the same fight or the same argument over and over again, that can be an indication. If there’s a lack of vitality or aliveness or you’re just not excited to hang out or spend time with your partner, those are indications that there’s energy dwindling from it. Yeah. Just the lack of satisfaction.
KC – And then what do we do with that awareness because it could be that one party is really aware of it and then the other party has no idea that the other is sensing that something’s off, so how do we even go about bringing up this slightly awkward topic?
MW – I love that you said that Katie because sometimes, I think I read somewhere along the way that it takes seven years for a couple to reach out for help. So they’ve been in the pit, in the mud, for about seven years and then they realize oh, maybe we should do something about this or maybe we could do something about this. And often couples don’t realize that they can have it different or they can have it better. Oftentimes couples are saying well if only you would be different the relationship would be so much better. Oftentimes one person is ok, they’re able to go along with the status quo like I can tolerate this, it’s not so bad, so one is going along and the other is saying I want more or there could be more for us. So oftentimes people don’t even realize that something could change, or that they have options or possibilities.
KC – It’s kind of a sad realization when we sometimes thing about the fact that so often we bring our worst selves home and our friends or our colleagues get better versions of perhaps our most intimate loved ones. Yeah, that awareness for some reason makes me sad but I guess it’s useful to be aware of.
MW – Well I totally agree with you, no one can trigger us more than the person who’s sleeping six inches away from us. When I realize that I was thinking wait a second, what’s up with that? There’s somebody right there, if we could actualize our potential, if we could come together, work together, connect on a deeper level there’s so much more we could do having an ally with us, rather than having that person be our enemy. And that’s part of what also got me interested in this work is how could we actualize the potential of being in that relationship, of having someone right there for us really supporting us and John Gottman, you know, does a lot of work with couples and he says; “relationship master's honor each other’s dreams”, they encourage each other’s dreams. And what if you could help the relationship turn in a direction where you could honor each other’s dreams? Where you could pull each other forth, could support each other, there’s so much more you could accomplish being part of a couple than you could as an individual in many ways.
KC – I love where you’re pointing us because I think so often we can feel like we dissolve into a couple and there’s a sense of we or oneness, and obviously oneness is a wonderful thing and it can sometimes feel like parts of you get diluted, so is the Gottman material saying that actually we should hold those parts of self and be true to those within the relationship?
MW – Yeah, for sure. And to really encourage each other. And I was part of a think tank for couples, for many years, with some other coaches and we got together regularly and talked about different things and then I came up with a model that I think is really helpful for couples where there are a few elements that you can focus on to help your relationship have more vitality and have more aliveness in it. And that’s where Alive in Love birthed, got birthed.
KC – I’m very curios, so what are the five tips that I need to take into my evening this evening?
MW – Here we go, so there are five areas and I’ll just say the five and then go back through them to tell you a little bit about them. But the first one is autonomy, having a sense of self like you were just talking about. The second is interdependence and being connected and open to the influence of the other. The third is intimacy and there are so many more ways to create intimacy in addition to sex, but intimacy is important. So is friction, how to have conflict with your partner in a healthy way. That’s often where people are conflict avoidant or have different things going on and that can be really helpful, and then having a vision of where they’re going together. So those are the five elements that it’s distilled down too in my mind.
KC – And are these things then you saw in the most successful couples, the relationship master's if you will?
MW – Yeah, that’s what I found and it starts with knowing yourself, who are you, what’s important to you, what do you value? Really, in terms of ORSC owning your own land, like knowing what lives in your land, what’s important in your land and really being able to take a stand for that and to know what you need, what you want and being able to speak about that and talk about that, that emotional intelligence that we each bring to that. So you have to be a whole person, otherwise if you go in as sort of a half person you can wind up being co-dependent in your relationship and thinking oh it’s your job to make me happy, but if you understand autonomy you realize that it’s important to make yourself happy, that you’re the place where it begins.
KC – Such an interesting point, I think about some of the couples coaching I’ve done and the third entity model and how hard it is for some people to stand on that first, that EQ corner and to own the I position because they’re so used to saying you, well you’re always late, you’re never doing anything.
MW – Yeah, it’s gotta start with yourself so. And just like you said, some people don’t even know what’s important to them, they haven’t thought about that, they’ve just been taken over by the relationship. So that sense of autonomy, who am I, what’s important to me, what do I value, that’s a starting place. Relationship starts with self so you have to have your own relationship with yourself, and that’s important.
KC – So, if a couple came in and you sense that at least one of them was struggling to understand really what they want, what would be your first coaching instinct?
MW – Well, I think of the lands work visualization so that takes them a little bit into the dreaming level and it’s a visualization they can start to imagine and picture what their land is like. So that might be a good way to start. And often couples who think they know each other really well and they think oh well I know my partner’s gonna answer this way or I know my partner’s gonna answer this way, they don’t realize what’s important in their own land and how different that really can be. So taking them, that’s the first thing that just pops up in my mind, as you say, where we start. I might start with that lands work visualization.
KC – That’s fascinating. So do you think that sometimes we can get so lost in the other and the other’s land that we actually forget about our own?
MW – Yeah! Or we could abdicate our own, like oh your land is so interesting, I wanna go over there, and that’s great that it’s interesting but what do you bring to the table, what do you have to offer? That’s, I think, what’s really important, to own that. And to enjoy that because then you’re, that gives the relationship something to create from which is the next piece which is interdependence. So you have to have like this is what I feel, this is what’s important to me, this is what you feel, what’s important to you, how can we start to create something from the best of both? So each has to have something to offer so that autonomy or that baseline is really important in relationship.
KC – Mm. I didn’t even think about, so often land’s work is my way or the highway but actually that compromising of self and if you’ve forgotten what’s in your land you’re not bringing anything to the table.
MW – Right. And you need that to create from, and that’s, the interdependence is about being open to the influence of the other, so this is what I have to offer, this is what you have to offer and what part of that, what part of what you have to offer is interesting to me and what part of what I have to offer is interesting to you? And that’s where collaboration happens and co-creation and something new can get born in the relationship, when there’s that sense of interdependence. I bring these qualities, you bring those qualities, how can we work together, how can we build on the best of both to create something new for us so that the us gets born there?
KC – How can we really listen at this level though? Because I imagine what’s interesting to us we might even have that annoying thing out brain does where it plays well I’ve already played this before, I know it’s not interesting, that’s got nothing to do with me, how can we stop that getting in the way of us really listening at this level?
MW – Well, I like that, I call it the game but I don’t know if it’s a skill or what it is but the yes, and. So, if we think yes, like from what you’re saying, this part of what you’re saying is the yes for me. And, what I would add is this, so sometimes that’s often something I hope couples learn and play with is yes, and, because most of us are caught in the no, but. No, but we can’t do that, but I don’t like that about you, no but this is your problem, those kind of things is how we often show up, but if we look at what do I appreciate about you, what do I enjoy about you, you know, what do I want to acknowledge about you, that’s interesting, that starts to have our mind go a little bit differently from the critical part which, like you said, can be really loud like this is what I don’t like. And if you can talk about this is what I don’t like then you can say well what do you like? Or how would you want that? What would be different? So it’s really about turning the conversation more in a way and having your mind work in a slightly different way so you’re looking for and listening for what is interesting? What do I like? Oh, I like that part of you. I hadn’t thought of it. Or I like this attitude that you bring. It could be something as simple as an attitude or a way someone does something that’s interesting, and when you speak about that with someone else that gets them lit up and that gets them interested with collaborating with you as well.
KC – You know, I’m hearing getting out of our own way but also getting out of the way of the relationship as well. Because we preempt and we plan so much and even with yes and, I love that example for this, we can sometimes end up building our own chain of ideas as opposed to building and collaborating on the offers that have been given to us, and what you’re saying makes me think we need to get out of our own way and get out of relationship’s way so that it can really do its own thing.
MW – Absolutely, and it’s who are we together? That’s also what we’re looking at. You know, you brought up the third entity exercise, you mentioned that, and that’s where we’re looking from the voice of the relationship, the relationship system. This person has got autonomy and this person has got autonomy so what is the relationship experience given that each brings something to the table? And that’s the part that’s really interesting, that’s the part that, that’s the spark of when we first connect with each other there’s kind of a magical moment when we meet somebody that we care about in an intimate relationship and there’s a spark, there’s a… I’m going like this with my fingers, it’s like this kinda juicy place and that happens when these two come together and we wanna actualize that, we wanna build on that, we wanna grow that part of us, who are we together? What’s the nature of our relationship? What’s the personality of our relationship? Who are we? And I just find that really fascinating.
KC – And the who are we journey, does that ever end or is it constantly evolving?
MW – I think it doesn’t end! I think it’s ongoing because as we continue to grow as individuals, which is normal, then our relationship needs to grow as well and our relationship goes through lots of different incarnations. We call it the myth change. There’s so many myth changes in a relationship over time, being conscious and intentional about those changes really can bring a lot of information to us and aliveness as well.
KC – It’s so different I think from how the cultural narrative sets us up. That who are we, well when we’re married that’s it, it’s sort of solidified in photos and with a ring, and then the work stops, but actually when that happens surely the work should just continue on.
MW – It just begins. When we get together it just begins, there’s so much that goes on because when there’s you and me and then we create a we, well there’s gonna be conflict that comes from there and how a couple works with conflict it can either help shut the relationship down or it can open the relationship up. And that’s the next piece is friction in relationship, how do you work with friction in the relationship? And if you think of it as like the sand that gets into the oyster that becomes the pearl, that’s friction, that’s friction!
KC – Ah, that’s brilliant.
MW – If you think of it that way that’s very different than trying to be right all the time because that’s often where couples get into a lot of trouble, is I’m right and you’re wrong which is so diminishing. Look, I do it myself so I’m not saying I’ve got this figured out by any means, but that I’m right, you’re wrong is so difficult and challenging in relationships and often those toxins that Gottman speaks of, he calls them the four horsemen of the apocalypse but they deteriorate the relationship really at a rapid rate and once those kind of get going, those toxic behaviors in relationship, it’s hard to reel them in. It is doable, you can change but you have to be willing to take responsibility for if you’re being toxic in conversations with your partner.
KC – I’m curious about this transformation of issues or problems and it makes me think of obstacles do not block the path, they are the path. Have you seen relationship master's sort of include and transcend these so called problems and issues and turn them into an ally then over time?
MW – Yes, and, that’s where couples have to roll up their sleeves. That’s the place that’s really challenging, so the first part is awareness I think and just realizing what you just said or how you were just being was actually toxic in relationship. And when I educate couples about these and there, blame and criticism is one, stonewalling, defensiveness and contempt. When couples realize that they’re doing it and again, kind of go back to self, oh, I was just critical there. Oh, I left the conversation, I was just stonewalling, and I often have them just note it themselves without saying anything but just to notice when they’re doing it, and then the next step is often tell on yourself. Tell your partner. You know in that conversation we had last night at dinner I think I was being kind of defensive. Or I think I was kinda, I’m being kinda critical right now aren’t I? Let me see if I can stop myself. So telling on themselves is like a second step. And then if your partner tells on themselves it’s not to pile on like yeah you were critical, just don’t do that. That doesn’t go very well. But just, if you hear someone was critical that might be an opportunity for you to say well actually now that you say that I realize I was defensive too. That starts to change the shape of the conversation and it starts to go in a little bit of a different direction. And then there are other antidotes that we have that we share with people, other ways to work, because often when we’re being toxic in our communication style there’s something that we’re going for. There’s an intention that we have. Often it’s some form of protection in some way and we’re being toxic to protect ourselves. We think that that’s protecting us but actually it’s making things worse. So once we realize that and find other ways to say oh I feel like I need to protect myself right now, that’s very different from acting in a defensive manor and that softens the relationship and helps people be a little more vulnerable so they can hear each other better.
KC – The toxins are a lifelong journey, I have a sense of now. I think when I first came across this material I thought ok I understand this now, I’m gonna get rid of these from my life but they just show up in different ways and perhaps more subtle ways like stonewalling, a great way. I do that sometimes when I’m looking at my phone because I don’t want to engage, say, with my husband and that’s a really subtle way of stonewalling. Are you finding the same, that they’re a lifelong journey?
MW – I’m finding that I work with couples, they’re often saying you know, my partner’s on their device while I’m trying to share something that’s really important to them for me and the people struggle with this. Again, I do it myself. It’s like you said, I can easily be at the dinner table checking my email while we’re having dinner and it’s like this quiet moment that we could be enjoying each other. So that’s another way of learning about conflict and how we do it and what’s our role in it and do we wanna keep doing the same thing and getting the same result or do we wanna try something a little bit different so that conflict, couples that can really debate really well and with positive intent and without using those toxins, those couples really can go far. Just because you fight doesn’t mean your relationship is doomed, it’s how you fight that has to do with the amount of vitality in your relationship. Because I do work with couples and they really are, they have very different opinions about things and they express them, as long as they’re not putting down their partner for the opinion that the partner has but they’re listening, you can be passionate and you can fight and you can be skillful a little bit and that can actually create a catalyst for growth in your relationship, because from those differences you can create something new. If you’re both the same and you get along all the time, there’s nothing wrong with that but it's, you go along to get along and it can be kind of complacent. When there’s some friction in the relationship it’s like that pearl that forms in the oyster, it can create something new that’s really quite amazing. And it takes a little bit of risk to be willing to have those kind of scary conversations because they can be loud and they can be boisterous but they also can be creative and there’s a creative energy that lives in that kind of friction. And sometimes we have to practice to get good at that.
KC – The world needs more of that, I think. I was just imagining having those kinds of conversations out of intimate relationships and in the political space, how we’re so polarized, there’s binaries around so many part of our lives, it feels like every relationship system could do with more of this.
MW – That’s right, yes. There can be a lot there. And once there’s that actualizing, new energy or new aliveness that can come from fiction, what’s also important in relationships is positivity, intimacy, connection, and that’s another piece that’s really important in relationship and I think once you’ve had the fight and, you know, then you’re good to go, well let’s connect. How do we connect? There’s lots of ways to connect of course. You know, often people think sexuality is intimacy and yes it is and there are other ways to be intimate as well. There’s a, you might have a good friendship with each other. There might be a spiritual connection that you have. There are lots of different ways to connect and be intimate that people don’t even realize count. There’s emotional intimacy, maybe you share your feelings with each other, all those different kinds of things create that intimacy. Sexual intimacy is important too, that’s often what brings couples together initially in the early stages of relationship and that can certainly thrive throughout your relationship as well. So that need for connection, the need for building positivity, again referring to Gottman, he talks about that you need a ratio of five positive to one negative interaction. So those positive interactions, that intimacy, that connection is really important to build in relationship. When I’m working with couples we’re doing two things, we’re looking to decrease negativity whilst we increase positivity so that there is a positive sentiment override in the relationship, more positive then negative and Gottman says you need five positive to one negative, and boy, that takes work. It doesn’t just happen. In the beginning of a relationship yes it does happen easily, automatically, effortlessly, couples connect and they love each other and they dream into each other and it’s really easy but once the relationship gets going and there’s been some myth changes and maybe some difficult times in the relationship you have to actually work to create that positivity. You have to put it on the calendar like here’s where we’re going to get together, you have to put your deices down at the dinner table and have those connections to connect new conversations. So that’s really important.
KC – And I wonder if you can talk a bit about the type of positivity as well because I think, we’re hearing a lot about toxic positivity right now in the workplace and I imagine that could be true for our personal relationships too, that positivity for the sake of it and that’s taking away from that third point about actually having the hard conversation but having it in a skillful way. So by positivity it’s not oh everything’s amazing love…
MW – I like how you said love. Everything’s amazing love. Yeah, positivity can show up in so many ways and it can be just like sending a text, thinking of you, it can be just that simple, it could be an emoji that you send with heart or a smiley face or something like that, but it’s gotta be consistent and ongoing, it doesn’t need to be chocolate and flowers and dates and date nights and all that, of course that’s important but it’s really the positive regard that you hold for your partner and that you assume positive intent with what they say, because somebody could say something one way and if you’ve got more negativity in a relationship it's gonna be perceived in a negative way. No matter what they say or how they behave or what they do, you’re gonna, if there’s a lot of negativity in the relationship you’re gonna assume they’re out to get you, they wanna, they don’t like you or they’re putting you down or they’re criticizing you, whereas if you have that ongoing positivity it’s almost like feathers in your nest, right? If you feather the nest with positivity or appreciation or acknowledgments, all of that, then whatever is said you hear it through a positive lens and so you assume if they’ve said something negative, oh they might be having a bad day, you’re easy to forgive and it’s easier to recover a relationship when there’s more positivity than negativity. And it’s not like sweeping things under the rug, like I said, and for me in my mind this comes after that friction piece because you’ve gotta be able to have the friction but then how do you recover if there’s been a wounding or if you’ve hurt each other unintentionally or you’ve been unskillful with each other, if you have that intimacy, that sense of positivity built up you can forgive, you can recover, you can move on.
KC – So could it simply be thank you for having that hard conversation with me?
MW – That simple. That simple. Or hey, I know that was tough for you to share that, I really appreciate that you reached out there or I appreciate that we had that difficult conversation. Let’s go have a cup of coffee together, you know, or let’s take a walk together, let’s hold hands or something like that, or I can see that was hard for you, that kind of appreciation and acknowledgment is really important. Catching each other doing something well and acknowledging that goes a long way. Because whatever you put your attention on, you know, I say this to couples a lot, whatever you put your attention on will grow. If you’re complaining, whatever you’re complaining about you’ll probably get more of that. If you catch somebody doing something that you appreciate or that they do well or that you acknowledge you’ll probably get more of that, so where you put your attention and where you talk about in your relationship is what will flourish. So that’s, it’s important just to keep that in mind and to, like I said, it’s not about sweeping things under the rug but it’s really acknowledging who that person’s being and how they’re showing up in the moment. That’s what builds the intimacy and the positivity over time.
KC – I’m wondering, I heard on another podcast, a guest once said that it’s important to continually sort of big up your partner, so really just think the world of them, and I wonder what do you think of that as a technique?
MW – I think that’s brilliant. I think that’s brilliant, to just, this is what I appreciate about my partner, this is what’s important, what they do well, all of that. Really, as you said, big them up. I think that’s really great, yeah. And that makes you turn towards each other, so when you’re being seen for who you are and your good qualities that will make you wanna do more of that and that will have you turn toward your partner so that you can create that intimacy together.
KC – And I guess then it’s useful to be aware of that when not in the room and when you’re having those side conversations, perhaps with colleagues or friends, because all of that is still in your system because you’re a part of that system of two.
MW – Yeah. That’s the positive gossip. You know, positively gossiping about your partner is a really good thing to do to others but also then to bring it back to your partner. Hey I was talking to these people about you, here’s how I was bragging about you, you know, I was kind of proud of what I had to say about you and here’s what it was, because people need to hear that. Often what we hear, a lot of what we hear are the compaints, and even though there may be positivity in the relationship we do need to articulate it, it’s important that people hear what’s going well and what’s important as well as if there are complains as well, but then it’s more balanced. But if 90% or 95% of what you hear is complaints, it’s not encouraging, it doesn’t help you move towards each other, that can have you start to turn away from each other.
KC – And I would say even with the, if it was 50/50, the brain’s negative bias, we’re not going to hear the positive ones, they’re gonna be drowned out by the complaints and so I think we really need to work on that positive piece because we’ve got this outdated operating system up here.
MW – Got it, exactly, so we’ve gotta make the effort. It’s after the dopamine wears off in your relationship you’ve gotta actually make time for the relationship and you’ve gotta make time for the positivity, you’ve gotta make an effort to do that. And it’s a habit. Once you get into the habit you can keep it going, but if the habit is complaining and criticism and blame and things like that they you’ve gotta skrrt, you know, take a left turn and do it a little bit differently.
KC – I feel like the title of this podcast could have been what to do after the dopamine wears off.
MW – That’s a good topic, that’s a good name! I think that’s good. What to do after that wears off, I love it. And then, you know, the kind of final piece of this, the capstone on this, what creates an alive, thriving, vital relationship is having a vision of together, of where do you wanna go, who do you wanna become together? What’s your future look like? What do you both want to create together and co-create together? What is it? Sometimes couples don’t have the same vision and they’re not aligned and then that can cause trouble in the relationship, so having conversations about that, who do we wanna be in 10 years, where do we wanna be, it’s practical, the day to day things, but it’s also the dream of who do we wanna be, how do we wanna be together, how do we envision ourselves as we go down the line? And having conversations about that is really important.
KC – I’m so glad you’re underlining that. I think there’s still a common misconception about couples coaching that it’s problems focused. And my husband and I right now are going through couples coaching and it’s really for that visioning piece and we think about coaching for many other areas of our life and yet we don’t think about it for this piece often that is the most important of all, and it’s a real privilege to sit in those conversations together and decide actually consciously and intentionally who do we want to be and what do we want to create in this world, in this life together?
MW – Yeah. And it could be a paper constellation is really good for this particular activity, looking at here’s our relationship now, here’s what I want and then here’s what you want, let’s look at that together and stimulate each other, get ideas about who do we wanna be or how do we wanna show up together. There’s also another activity we do in ORSC called bringing down the vision which is really about what’s the vision of our third entity if we go into that essence level of what’s an image or a picture of our relationship and start to look at that together. That’s another way to access who we want to become and how we want to move forward in our life together. And often couples don’t have those conversations. Maybe, again, when they first get together they go oh we want to have a family or this is where we think we’d like to live, but once you’re in the relationship now what do you want? You know, how do you want to grow the next 10 years? The next 10 years as you look forward. So that’s a really important conversation to have.
KC – I wonder if a lot of couples don’t know that they actually get to ask that question, that they have a choice.
MW – Beautiful. Most couples don’t realize that they have choices and options and that’s where couples coaching can be really helpful! Because we often think of this is the way it is. This is the way my partner is or this is the way I am or this is the way marriage is or this is the way relationships are, and now that we’ve got lots of thought leaders in the field doing work with couples and lots of couples coaches, we realize that the couple can be empowered to create wat they want, that they can actually be the architect and designers of their relationship, that it’s not set in stone at all. It’s not even set. They actually, every couple gets to design and create their own life together and that’s cool, you know, because it's open and there’s lots of possibilities, it’s also a bit of a responsibility, how are we gonna be together, what is it that we want to create together?
KC – Yeah it is cool but you’re right, it takes some looking in the mirror for sure because suddenly you have some agency in that.
MW – You have a lot, you have much more agency than you realize and I think that’s where the ORSC coaches, that’s the good work that we’re doing in the world is we’re making that available to people and showing them that they can reflect, self-reflect and look at the relationship but also they can vision, they can imagine, they can dream, they can take them into that dreaming level. What do you long for, what do you want, what’s your high dream, what’s your low dream, what do you want to have happen? And then how do you make that happen, and that’s what we often do in coaching. So I think that any couple could use a couple’s coach just to facilitate those conversations. Just to help them go someplace new together.
KC – I’m curious, with all your experience and also with your, is it 40+ years of marriage?
MW – 40+, yes.
KC – I’m wondering if you could share a bit about how this has impacted your most intimate, personal relationship in that marriage?
MW – For sure. So, I’m trying to think back when we first got together and how it’s been, there’s been so many ups and downs in our relationship over the years, just so many challenges, I can’t even begin to tell you. And learning about, I had this drive before I knew about ORSC, coaching or anything, I had this drive to have a really great relationship, it was something I wanted as a kid, I thought I think it’s possible I don’t quite know how to do it. And then as I eventually got to coaching at to the ORSC program and looking about how to have different kinds of conversations and how to look at each other differently and my sons were still at home when I started the program, and we’re still close as a family of four and we have conversations and we really support each other, we get together for brainstorming conversations about what does everybody wanna do, is there a project we wanna do together as a family? We don’t always do things from it but we have these really rich conversations that has us be really close together. And I was just telling you before the call that my oldest just got engaged and we’re all just, we’re all excited for him, it’s as if it’s happening to all of us, the fact that he’s doing this and it just feels really good, so I believe that the ORSC principles and I would slip that in at the dinner table because you know, you don’t want the kids to say oh mom don’t do that coaching thing with us, so I’d slip it in at the dinner table, different things about our third entity as a foursome when they were still home and just different ways of looking and having different conversations and I really think that those conversations have made us a closer family.
KC – That’s beautiful. And it really talks to that ripple effect because yeah, we’re doing this work as a couple but it also has an impact and Alive in Love, it sounds like yes, your son’s getting married but you can feel that love too.
MW – Yes exactly, exactly. And I don’t know if I hadn’t done all of this is I would be that way. But I am so thrilled and excited for him, and our family’s growing, we were four and now we’re going to be five as they bring in their partners to our family, we get to expand and grow and there’s a lot of excitement around that.
KC – That’s gorgeous. And it’s been absolutely wonderful to be in conversation with you Maddie, thank you so much for sharing so much of yourself and also your expertise, and I can’t wait to have you back on the show in the near future.
MW – Katie, thank you so much and just thank you for all your listeners who listen to these podcasts and get information, we’re really excited that, I feel like there’s a movement happening for couples to have richer, more exciting, more empowered relationships where the couple has the agency, we have our own individual agency but couples have that agency and those options as well. So thank you for bringing this to the public.
KC – Thank you Maddie, take care.
[Music outro begins 40:09]
KC – Thanks to Maddie for that wonderful episode around how we can be more Alive in Love. Here are my key takeaways. Couples don’t often realize that they can have it different or they can have it better, that there are options and possibilities. We don’t have to maintain the status quo if it’s no longer serving us. We can actualize the potential within our relationship by becoming each other’s allies, supporting and encouraging each other in our individual and collective dreams. Maddie is leading the Alive in Love program, a two-hour, interactive, virtual workshop designed to renew and refresh personal relationships. Alive in Love supports any romantic relationship, even those in the future. This includes partners in a committed relationship which could use a burst of fresh energy, partners who want to start their blossoming relationship off on a positive note, those who are currently single who plan to enter their next relationship with more awareness and intentionality. For upcoming dates or to book onto the February 2nd course please visit www.crrglobalusa.com/couples-workshop. Thank you for listening to the Relationship Matters podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with your colleagues and friends so that we can continue to spread these ideas across the globe, and if you haven’t already, do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you never miss an episode. And for more information on the ORSC courses please visit CRRGlobal.com. For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time. We believe Relationship Matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole.
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