Ep. 25 The Team Coach Approach Part 3: Integrating Learnings

This is episode 3 in a 3-part series on team coaching with team coach and CRR Global faculty member Martin Klaver. In episode 3, Katie and Martin discuss how to support clients in integrating the learnings. Across the conversation, they discuss:

• How to weave integration throughout a team coaching engagement
• Trusting and harnessing the wisdom of the team
• Understanding that integration is the team’s responsibility
• Celebrating small wins
• Focusing on results as opposed to the process.

Martin Klaver is an experienced team coach and faculty member at CRR Global. He is enthusiastic about group dynamics and believes guiding systems in these dynamics and making patterns and potential aware is beautiful and rewarding work. Martin designs and supervises many Management Development processes where personal development (IQ and EQ), relationships with others (SQ) and relationships with systems (RSI) are fundamental. Fun, experimental and essence are themes that you can recognize in his methods.

Martin has a master’s degree in Business Administration and extensive work experience in HR and organizational development at various organizations. Based in the Netherlands, Martin facilitates with his team a diversity of organizations and leaders in their development. The purpose of his company is to bring more balance in the world. They focus to create an atmosphere of possibility in which the system can evolve into what is needed.


For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time

We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.

Transcript

Key 

KC – Katie Churchman 

MK – Martin Klaver 

[Intro 00:00 – 00:06] 

KC – Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity, to nature, to the larger whole. I’m your host, Katie Churchman, and this is part three of a three part series on the team coach approach, with team coach and faculty member Martin Klaver. If you haven’t listened to them already we’d highly recommend checking out parts one and two of the team coach approach. Part one: defining success, and part two: building relationships, before listening to this final installment of the series: integrating learnings. In this episode Martin and I discuss how to support clients in integrating learnings, and across this conversation we cover how to weave integration throughout a team coaching engagement; trusting and harnessing the wisdom of a team; understanding that integration is a teams responsibility; celebrating small wins; and focusing on results as opposed to the process. So without further ado I bring you Martin Klaver talking about the team coach approach - part three: integrating learnings. 

KC – Martin, welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast, happy to have you on the show once again. 

MK – Thank you very much and great to be here, again. 

KC – And today we’re talking about integration as a key part of the team coach approach. So talk to me first about what integration means to you. 

MK – Yeah I think it’s, what we’re focusing on is the integration of the learnings, of the change. I think integration, well, that’s what you’re aiming for. It’s something that they will do differently because of the sessions, of the trainings of the facilitation. So that’s, for me, that’s integration. 

KC – And I know sometimes it can become an afterthought, it can be the thing that we cram into the last session of a 12 month program. And what does integration look like to you because I feel like there’s perhaps a more sustainable way of weaving this in throughout. 

MK – Yeah, I think there are many ways. So what I can share is the way we work is that, normally with a team facilitation there’s a lot of, also behavioral parts in it, and we often take them like 6-12 months and also about the same amount of sessions. Sometimes we feel during the process that it changes faster so we end the process after, well, let’s say 5/6 sessions, because then integration happened, and sometimes it takes a little bit more time, so we plan the sessions but we never know if we’re gonna use all the sessions that we have planned. So this is an approach that we have and it really makes, also at the beginning, very clear that it’s about re-facilitated change that the team wants. And if the change happens, if they feel that it happens and we have also, of course, our opinion about that, then we can end the facilitation. So the integration is, from the start is, a conversation piece for us and probably at the start of the sessions it’s more like a more higher, bigger goal where you aim at, at the end of the sessions. But what we do is at the end of each session we make an agreement of something that they are going to do or something they’re going to try out or going to use between the sessions. So, we have, again, more input in the next session. So we’re going to use those experiences to see well, is this really what is helping you, is this a change that you're after? What are some edges that you come across or you find difficulty and so we have that process going on, for all the sessions. 

KC – So would you say that it’s very much a part of your relationship with the client, it’s not on you as the coach to make the integration happen, you very much hold that within the relationship with the client? 

MK – We hold it in the relationship and responsibility is of the team. So we hold it as a conversation in the relationship, but we don’t take ownership of that, because if they don’t do it, for us it’s just a signal that something else tries to happen or is needed, or, you know, it’s interesting information in the process. 

KC – That’s quite relieving to hear, I imagine it’s much lighter to hold, that you don’t have to be responsible for whether or not they integrate. 

MK – Yeah but that is true, sometimes that, they make agreements and yeah, of course I hope that they will success somehow, often I also hope I owe success to that, you know, it’s like oh, have we done a good job? They did it and it was successful. Yay! But I think, mm, a lot of the time when we’re asked there are issues on different levels of the team and sometimes the easiest answers are not the answers that they really need, so, I think in the team process it’s always good that you really find the big edge, the elephant in the room or whatever it is, you know, it will pop up, it can pop up at the start or during or, hopefully not at the end, that’s always the difficult one I feel. So, by having that notice that they are responsible, we’re not so attached on the results they’re having, but more curious about the process they’ve gone through. 

KC – So, why do you feel it’s important for us as coaches to facilitate this conversation at least, and why do you think it’s important for us to have this conversation throughout the relationship, whether it’s 4 months or 12 months or longer. 

MK – Yeah it’s, I think it’s a part what I got from the EGL background, and all phases needs to be there, you know, you need to have the planning, the dreaming part, what kind of edges do we take and then do it and evaluate it. So, that is, that’s the process we have and we hold in our minds, but also if you really want to have and experience the change, you have to have all the steps. And otherwise you never know, the team can never feel, also, successful with it, you know. What can we celebrate if we’re going through that? So, some markers in the process is also very important. They know where to go and what they want so we take steps in that. 

KC – It makes me think that I guess, as well, in some ways connecting them to the two degree tiller shifts, the idea that shifts can happen in a way that we don’t always see, and if they’re noticing the little things then in time they start to hopefully be more aware of that shift. 

MK – Yeah. I like what you’re saying, yes. It helps them to also realize that they are making steps and they are developing as a team, and maybe they don’t experience it as fully yet, but yeah, I like what you’re saying and referring too. 

KC – It also makes me think of James Clear and his idea that habits are the compound trust of personal development, and this integration conversation that’s throughout your team coaching process is, in many ways, creating team habits. They might be small but over time they might build towards a culture that’s so different from where they started. 

MK – Exactly. Yeah. And make them aware of that and responsible and I think it has real importance. 

KC – You mention that you typically have sessions once a month which is aligned with how I would typically run a coaching engagement, and so how do you keep the momentum up in-between those sessions because a month can feel like a long time, particularly in those busy periods for our clients. 

MK – Yep, certainly. So, we end each session with agreements that they’re gonna pick up, they’re gonan do or gonna try out, gonna work with, and depending on their learning style we organize something in-between. So, and you can be very creative with things and I think a lot of coaches have created ways of doing that, but sometimes we build up a WhatsApp group with the team and we can pop some questions in it, or just a reminder of it, or we ask for a picture or whatever you know, whatever fits the learning curve, and sometimes we go and visit them during meetings, so that’s also a helper for them to ooh, yep, here they come again, oh we need to pay attention. 

KC – That’s brilliant. 

MK – So they’re very different ways. What we always do is we pick two persons, a couple of persons depending on the size of the team, for the preparations for the next session, so that is for us a way to check in with them, in the team, where they are, and it helps us to design the topic, maybe we also designed the topic in the previous session, but yeah, now they have like 3-4 weeks experience again and maybe they want to address something else, so, and that’s also something to make the team rehearsal for what they are doing and we can align with them how we are doing it. 

KC – I like that a lot, it leans into the spirit of the design team alliance in many ways. And then when you’re meeting them at their next session you’re not meeting them with all their individual goals, they’ve come together and decided on a team goal that they want to work towards. 

MK – Exactly. And it’s interesting also, depending on the culture from the organization, is if they haven’t done anything. There’s a lot of times where the workload was too big or whatever, they have maybe excuses or, you know, it could be anything, but they haven’t really paid attention to what they agreed on, well that is for us very interesting information to work with. Is it death behavior, what’s underneath it, did we get the right topic or not, you know. So this is the development, this is, for me this is the work. So not so curious about what they’re gonna do or the expectations because they know, but how they are doing it or not doing it, that really attracts my attention. 

KC – Yeah, I was gonna say, it gives you a lot of energy, whereas I can imagine for a lot of people including myself, if none of the homework’s been done there’s a little bit of me that thinks oh gosh, this is such a failure. And yet you’re seeing that as a signal and I geuss you reveal then what’s going on, and you use that as information for the team to use or not use. 

MK – Exactly, and to be open or to be honest is also, I feel that too, that failure part. There is also something in me that hopefully what we design that really lands with them and they get enthusiastic about it, blah blah blah, and I know well the learning curve isn’t always like that. Failure will come, you know, that’s good and sometimes really the behavioral part change needs that failure in order to grow, really, to understand. 

KC – So they’re accountable or responsible for the what, you’re focusing on the how – what about the why? 

MK – Well, I’ve done, I just did this weekend, I did a path course, so I was told in the three levels of reality in the path course, so in the essence, the why, the part of this, and from that course we know all levels are important, and from my experience for some teams it takes a little bit of time to really get to the why, to the essence level. It’s not easy, they’re not used to it, they don’t understand it. So, meet the system where they are, work in consensus reality, do a little bit of dreaming, read the emotional field and slowly they understand more the why, the how. And sometimes in the end it’s hard for them to get, and still everybody’s capable to get this. So sometimes it needs a little time. 

KC – But as a coach your focus, primarily, is on the how? That’s where you’re curious. 

MK – Yeah, well the process they’re going through. This one I’m curious about, why are they doing things or why are they not doing things, so those things that really are interesting, or how they react to each other. 

KC – What creates successful integration? How can we facilitate in a way that encourages our clients to really focus on this bit, because sometimes we can do a great session and I get the sense that they think the work’s been done. They’ve done this great day, they’ve done the work, but actually the work really begins when we leave the coaching session or the training room and we start to integrate those learnings into our lives. So, what helps us to facilitate that part of the change? 

MK – Hmm, well, yeah it’s interesting. I don’t know if I have the answer, what I’m learning is take some time for it and the real integration is between the sessions, not in the sessions. I think the sessions that we do are more brining awareness, they become conscience. And from that new information they apply to what they do and they learn, so they move on and it’s a real trust that conscious and awareness, bringing that into the team, will help them to bring ownership, and by doing multiple sessions it also feels that, you know, that there is that, mm, maybe something, apparent like that they’re still watching you, so there is like hmm ok, and there is maybe also something like we need to do it because of the facilitators, something like that, and that could also be something that helps them in their change of behavior. In the end they really need to do it by themselves. And what you’re saying, they really need to understand and feel the why, the essence of it. And so, and that dream should be their dream and not my dream, as a facilitator. But that’s the whole process, and I think the big mistake I made, and sometimes still do, is I go too fast. I’ve gone too fast. I see it and I think I see it and I put something in and they got it, and oh wait, no Martin, it takes longer. 

KC – It makes me think of some of the earlier episodes we recorded around a successful business and meeting the client, and I wonder if what we sell there in terms of this process, if we sell speed that’s gonna, potentially, undermine this integration phase. 

MK – Yeah, I like that a lot what you’re saying. So there was a, now, we were starting with the team, there was quite some issues, also from the past, and they are fed up with it so they really need to change, but we said based on our experience it’ll take 8-12 months of this, so the whole 2023 spent, do your focus on your team development. And first of all it’s like oh but we’re fed up with it, we want to get rid of it, but then the realization came, yeah, it took a lot of years to come here, it probably also takes some time to make something different, you know, to create another culture amongst ourselves. And immediately that brings hope, some ease into it. And that opens a safety space, again, for another conversation. 

KC – I guess as coaches we have to have rigor around the pace, because the speed of life in general is so fast, it’s quite easy to be pulled in by that. And so to honor that, if we have a pushy client who’s like yeah, yeah, but can you do it in 3 months, to honor that actually, that’s not what we do here. 

MK – No, I love, there is also like a social media going like no artist that draws a fantastic horse, and then can you do it for less and they’ve used a very childlike drawing, well yeah, you get what you’re paying, so that is a nice reference to it. It’s like yeah we can do it in three months but you’ll never get the results that you’re hoping. And then oh, we just have time for one session, ok, so what do you expect, I think it’s good in the DTA and the DLA that we’re having with the client is to be then ok, what do you, what do you think the outcome will be? And you can share what your thoughts are about it. 

KC – Yeah, and then you can enter into those, whether it’s 1 session or 10 sessions, in a conscious and intentional way. 

MK – Exactly! So if you design 1 session and you’re very clear about the impact or outcome of it, perfect, do it. But if you really facilitate change in a team, hmm, from my experience I would say take at least 6 months for it. 

KC – I wonder if we can zoom out slightly from the team coach approach and talk about integration in general. I find this concept really interesting and as coaches we’re often learning new things and trying out new trainings and tools and techniques, and I wonder how you’ve held the integration process in your life, because I know, for me at least, I can sometimes do so many things and then there’s almost too many things that none of it really lands. 

MK – Yes. 

KC – And so how do you integrate things into your business? 

MK – Yes. It’s also the timing where we are as a company. So sometimes we feel that we need inspiration, then we can learn or read different things and we get inspired, but that can feel very superficial from time to time. So we have then the discussion of what do we really want to integrate in a company? Is there something that we want to integrate and then take time for that, to really embody it, to live it? You know, and getting a lot of inspiration through training or workshops or whatever that’s in books, you know, that’s great and we need that, I need that too, but if there is no time for really live it and really, doing the work, internal work yourself on those topics, then, hmm, it feels sometimes for me more that people are just throwing a model at you then they can really help me integrate the model. 

KC – I like what you said there about you really live it, so it’s living your intention when you’re really in that integration, it’s not just doing the thing because that’s the tick box you want to tick on your CV or whatever it may be. 

MK – Yeah. And also, that part is also not wrong, but if you ask me about the integration part, yeah, integration takes time. I think from my experience when I did the ORSC intermediate series, there was a lot of information throughout the series, so ok, so I waited a while before I did my certification and there I felt that all the concept and everything really landed with me, but after that doing the work that then, the integration part really came, for me it took really a couple of years for, to feel like ah, I think I got a sense of what this work is all about. And now by delivering the courses I can still feel like ah yeah, oh great, never thought of that one! So it’s also a part of where you are at your life or what’s happening in your life that you, you’ve been drawn to something in a certain, well, theory or model or whatever. 

KC – It’s quite a humbling integration, I think for a long time I thought that integration was a destination, I integrate that, I integrate this, and it’s a deepening, and particularly with this work it doesn’t seem to end, you just peel back the layers even further in different ways. 

MK – Sometimes also it’s the part, for me, is sometimes also you let go of some things what you’ve integrated before, you know, what was really important, certain spirit of my work life or personal life, and now I feel like ok, no, not so much anymore. You know, I can let that part go and that takes space for something else. 

KC – I didn’t think about that. I think because of the way the word is set up, it sounds like adding something, integrating, and actually integrating can be letting go, how interesting. And that might be something for a lot of our teams right now to think about, because there’s so much going on, a lot of people are borderline burnt out, actually maybe we don’t need to integrate another wellbeing habit, maybe we need to let something go. 

MK – Cool, I like that what you’re saying. Yeah. 

KC – Thank you so much Martin for these discussions, they’ve been so informative and fastening, and I guess I have one final question to close with you. What would be your top tip for someone starting a team coaching business? 

MK – Hmm. Trust yourself. If you are in the work, you want to do it you feel it, trust it. Trust yourself. I think this work is, the work will come to you then, so that’s my strong belief, at least. 

KC – I love that, thank you. And thank you for these conversations, Martin, it’s been a joy. 

MK – Thank you for the invitation and wonderful to talk to you like this. 

[Music outro begins 21:52] 

KC – I want to say a big thank you to Martin for these three practical and informative episodes on the team coach approach. Here are my key takeaways from this episode. The team is responsible for their integration. As a team coach we should be less attached to the results and more focused on the process itself. If a team doesn’t complete an action, this is information. As a coach how do we stay connected to the process as opposed to the results and reveal what shows up as information? It’s important to look for markers throughout the process so that we can celebrate the team’s small wins and help them to realize that they’re making steps, even if they don’t experience them so clearly yet. The real integration happens in-between the sessions, not in the sessions themselves. Integration is when you are living your intention. Thank you for listening to the Relationship Matters podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with your colleagues and friends so that we can continue to spread these ideas across the globe, and if you haven’t already, do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you never miss an episode. And for more information on the ORSC courses please visit CRRGlobal.com. For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time. We believe Relationship Matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole. 

[Outro 23:48 – end]