Across these 3 episodes, Katie talks with Michelle Davis, faculty member and Director of Systemic Equity Initiatives at CRR Global, about supporting systemic equity. As humans, we have diversity – we think differently and hold different perspectives and ideas – that’s what makes us unique and different and should be celebrated. Once we start to create fear based on those differences - we begin to dehumanize groups of people and lock them out of opportunities. This 3-part series builds along the lines of the 3-levels of intelligence (Emotional Intelligence EQ, Social Intelligence SI and Relationship System Intelligence RSI). If you've not already listened to parts 1 and 2, we'd highly recommend listening to both of those episodes first. In part 3, Katie and Michelle look through the lens of Relationship System Intelligence. Topics include:
Michelle Davis is a faculty member and Director of Systemic Equity Initiatives at CRR Global. Michelle’s professional journey has included a season of providing therapy, as a licensed professional counselor, to the most vulnerable among us; a season of developing and delivering experiential learning events that challenge and disrupt the status quo when the status quo no longer serves; and currently, a season providing leadership coaching as a certified organization and relationship systems coach and leading diversity, equity and inclusion efforts as a professor and director. In her work at the University of Colorado and previous experience working with systemic racism in other university systems, Michelle was the principal developer of a coaching program focused on Race Intelligence (RQ(™)). This program seeks to increase Race Intelligence by guiding others to increase their capacity to lean into discomfort with the intention of becoming aware of race and racism and its influence on oneself, others, and societal institutions; and use this increased intelligence or awareness consciously to dismantle intrapersonal mindsets, behaviors, and systemic representations of racism. Michelle earned her master’s degree in counselling at the University of Nebraska at Omaha and, as well as being an ORSC-certified coach, is a Licensed Professional Counselor, a trained Co-Active Coach, and a Certified Dare to Lead Facilitator.
For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time
We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.
Across these 3 episodes, Katie talks with Michelle Davis, faculty member and Director of Systemic Equity Initiatives at CRR Global, about supporting systemic equity. As humans, we have diversity – we think differently and hold different perspectives and ideas – that’s what makes us unique and different and should be celebrated. Once we start to create fear based on those differences - we begin to dehumanize groups of people and lock them out of opportunities. This 3-part series builds along the lines of the 3-levels of intelligence (Emotional Intelligence EQ, Social Intelligence SI and Relationship System Intelligence RSI). If you've not already listened to parts 1 and 2, we'd highly recommend listening to both of those episodes first. In part 3, Katie and Michelle look through the lens of Relationship System Intelligence. Topics include:
Michelle Davis is a faculty member and Director of Systemic Equity Initiatives at CRR Global. Michelle’s professional journey has included a season of providing therapy, as a licensed professional counselor, to the most vulnerable among us; a season of developing and delivering experiential learning events that challenge and disrupt the status quo when the status quo no longer serves; and currently, a season providing leadership coaching as a certified organization and relationship systems coach and leading diversity, equity and inclusion efforts as a professor and director. In her work at the University of Colorado and previous experience working with systemic racism in other university systems, Michelle was the principal developer of a coaching program focused on Race Intelligence (RQ(™)). This program seeks to increase Race Intelligence by guiding others to increase their capacity to lean into discomfort with the intention of becoming aware of race and racism and its influence on oneself, others, and societal institutions; and use this increased intelligence or awareness consciously to dismantle intrapersonal mindsets, behaviors, and systemic representations of racism. Michelle earned her master’s degree in counselling at the University of Nebraska at Omaha and, as well as being an ORSC-certified coach, is a Licensed Professional Counselor, a trained Co-Active Coach, and a Certified Dare to Lead Facilitator.
For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to build stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time
We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity to nature, to the larger whole.
Key
KC – Katie Churchman
MD - Michelle Davis
[Intro 00:00 – 00:06]
KC – Hello and welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast. We believe Relationship Matters, from humanity, to nature, to the larger whole. I’m your host, Katie Churchman, and in this episode I’m continuing on my conversation with Michelle Davis, faculty member and Director of Systemic Equity Initiatives at CRR Global, about supporting systemic equity. As humans, we have diversity, we think differently and hold different perspectives and ideas, that’s what makes us unique and different and should be celebrated. Once we start to create fear based upon those differences we begin to dehumanize groups of people and lock them out of opportunities. This three part series builds along the lines of the three levels of intelligence - emotional intelligence, social intelligence and relationship system intelligence. If you’ve not already listened to parts one and two, we'd highly recommend listening to both of those episodes first. In part three, Michelle and I look at how relationship system intelligence informs integrating systemic equity. Topics include looking through the lens of relationship; the importance of integrating systemic equity into the bones of an organization; the power of the coach approach; skillful storytelling and choosing to create a different reality; and privilege and power structures. So without further ado I bring you Michelle Davis.
KC – Michelle, welcome back to the Relationship Matters podcast.
MD – Thank you Katie, glad to be back.
KC – Continuing on this very important conversation around supporting systemic equity, and in this episode we’re looking through the lens of relationship system intelligence and how relationship system intelligence can inform how we support systemic equity. So talk to me about your journey into relationship systems intelligence and how this informs the work that you do.
MD – It was such an unintentional journey. In some of the work that I was doing I was being introduced to coaching, many have shared this, but I first went to co-active coach training and I was a little bit, parts of me were a little bit faulty and it felt like an infringement or a crossover into the land of therapy world, just not calling it therapy, and I’m like wait, I went to school, got my master's degree, did tons and tons of political hours, had to take a test in order to get my license and here people can just call themselves coach and do these similar types of things. But I soon learned that there was more, there was a differentiation, I was able to kinda begin to separate it. And I think that came along more when I was able to go through ORSC training, go into the courses. And there was something really powerful, and I loved co-active, I still use that, although I’m not certified in it, I still use some of the concepts but there was something about ORSC and systemic, looking through the lens of relationship that really spoke powerfully to me. And it resonated because it felt like that’s where I’ve always kinda been, is a systems thinker. Thinking about the bigger whole, the bigger parts and how they’re impacted and then just going through the training and then certification was just, kept opening my eyes. And even doing, leading courses of faculty with CRR Global continues to open my eyes, there’s so much richness there because every relationship that we’re in, it’s its own type of fingerprint and when you look at a fingerprint it's so complex but there and that’s how I started to begin to dive into looking at things through relationship all starts to kinda tell this story. I remember in a course, this was when Marita was leading, she was one of the leads for my course and she mentioned that she was from South Africa and it might have been intelligence, we talked about deep democracy I think, and I asked her how did you do this? How did it happen, something like this, happen in a country where there was apartheid? And just the opening of that conversation led to more conversations and she wanted me to connect with Faith and the rest is history. But it’s just thinking about how those tools can work in really deep, complex issues, that we are, all of us, are impacted by.
KC – It’s a powerful paradigm shift, relationship systems intelligence, and through these episodes we’ve looked at how we need to do the work on ourself and the small ways we can lean into relationship. But this is that step back, that balcony view now. And from here what are we able to see but also what are we able to impact? What are the ripple effects that we can send out in the world?
MD – Yes. And it’s a building of that intelligence. It’s a building of conscious awareness about the impact that I have on you and the impact you have on me and getting curious about that. Getting curious within ourselves, getting curious with each other and getting curious outside of ourselves which I think is that balcony view, where we can start to look at what’s here for me to learn, what’s here for me to understand, what’s showing up that I just need to really slow down and listen too? And that’s the intelligence part to me. Like there’s so, like I said, it's so complex but if we started to drill down and really think about those impacts that are constantly happening it opens up a world of information that we don’t normally have about one another and about the system we live.
KC – It’s interesting you mention slow down because I feel, and we mentioned about Black Lives Matter and how there was a lot of momentum after that and then there was a shift, a downward turn, and I sense that a lot of organizations really rushed to get policies in and procedures involved in what they do but I wonder if this rush really integrated anything at all and whether, to your point from last episode, it was more window dressing.
MD – Yeah. Of course I don’t know for sure but my assumption would be, because there’s issues around time spirits so embedded in our system. They’re living all around us but we don’t really notice them, it’s like we’re just moving through life without really being aware of the impact of these time spirits on us. But they’re so integrated into everything that we do. So when you apply what you believe on strategies so quickly I wonder then if it’s getting into the bones of the organization and whether, once it gets into the bones of the organization, once it’s situated in all parts and aspects, you fill it, it can’t really be extricated anymore because it’s in there. People are now moving, living and breathing the aspects of relationship systems intelligence as it relates to time spirit issues, racism, various genders, all those pieces that live in the realm of time spirits but I’m going to specifically focus on racism because that seems like to me such an attractable issue, once you start to apply real, slow down and start to infuse it within your organization, whether Michelle leaves or the next chief diversity officer leaves it doesn’t matter anymore. It will matter less, I would say, because it’s in the organization. So it’s the difference between going a little bit slower or maybe a lot of bit slower and building the structures within the bones of the organization so that it’s now situated. But if organizations are going really fast and just trying to put a diversity statement on their website, make a declaration that we’re for Black Lives Matter, why? Why are you for Black Lives Matter? What does the statement really mean to you and how is it being operationalized? Because the statement is just a statement, it’s window dressing, but how’s it being operationalized in marketing, in HR, in finance, in all aspects of the organization. And it takes time to really root it there, so it’s not just like a seed planted on, you know, the ground, it’ll blow away, really quickly, it just blows away. And when a wind hits like financial downturns, it’s just gonna go. Some of the people that they believe are not as necessary to the organization, that may still happen but if it’s within the bones of the organization, the people have adopted strategies on dealing with systemic equity issues from a larger lens, from a systemic equity lens, and a relationships intelligence lens, you can’t say that you now don’t know. You’re now impacted by what you know, you’re now conscious of what you now know. You know why you operated in the way that you did before. You can’t unlearn that, it’s there now. So that’s, to me, about building the structures within the organization, I often use the concept of iceberg as well. It’s like what you see is on the top but what you wanna impact and what you wanna fill in experience is below that. And once you start to learn the language of time spirits and relationship system intelligence then apply that to these issues you can’t unlearn it and it’s gonna come out in ways that either surprise you or you’re not even aware of, just like racism. But that to me is the need to slow down and not just put window dressing or lipstick on a pig, I remember when Hilary Clinton said that a long time ago, because as soon as the financial downturn occurs or there’s too much heat in the system, thinking of Florida, there’s too much heat, then you’re going to let this go. And the proof of that is every single solitary year that has happened before now. Every single solitary year.
KC – It makes me think that the coach approach is so important to this because I moved from more of a training background to coaching because I felt like training has it’s place, it’s purpose, and I feel like it doesn’t embed think into cultures in the way that coaching does, it doesn’t break that reflective practice that enables people then to continue the conversation on after you’ve left. And I feel like what you’re talking too here is it’s embedded at sort of a coaching level so that there’s a culture around this where they continue to ask the questions.
MD - Yes. There’s a culture around it but there’s consciousness around it. We are so unconscious to the ways in which we move when it comes to issues like racism. Even those of us that have more melanin in our skin, we’re still unconscious to many of the things, we’re more conscious, I think, than white people, but we’re still unconscious to the way it’s impacting us. For instance, I’m living in a suburban neighborhood, I love the neighborhood, I love the quiet of the neighborhood, but if I dug deep behind why I’m here it looks good societally. I enjoy it, I enjoy my home, I enjoy where I live, but where did I make up, where did I ever get the sense that suburbia was the quiet, nice, serene, less crime, perspective neighborhood. Where did I get that from? I got that from socialized into racism. So if I really dug deep and became conscious of that now I’m at more choice. I can say am I here now because of the way it appears or the way it keeps me safe or am I here now because I enjoy for myself the area in which I live. This is kind of the environment I wanna live. At least now I’m conscious enough now to even question it. To look at it. To look at it outside of myself. So that’s what I mean by even people of color have been impacted significantly by this socialized way of being around race and power and privilege. When I think about systems and when I hear people talking about system, the edge behavior around that is it’s just systems, there’s nothing I can do about that. It’s bureaucracy. It’s policy. It’s law. These are all, to me, edges against change. Because not really examining in it and wanting to get conscious with it you blame something else instead of looking here because the system doesn’t, it’s not a thing, an amoeba that lives off by itself, it’s a part of a collective of people and those people are not navigating that system with consciousness around systemic equity issues. We’re just not.
KC – I think that’s why, what we spoke about in episode one, the me system, is so important, particularly for us as coaches and anyone really in that space of training development, coaching, because if we’re gonna go out there and encourage other people to step into this space we need to model is too. And I have a feeling that a lot of us are sort of guising this version of oh no, I’ve done my work, I’ve arrived, and that’s just creating more ripples in the wrong direction.
MD – Mmm. Yes. And there is no I’ve done my work.
KC – No!
MD – That’s a fallacy! We have to keep doing our work. We didn’t get here by accident, we weren’t socialized in this way by accident. It took centuries to do this and it’s continuing today, so there is no done. We’ve gotta constantly stay aware and in tune with what’s happening around us. It’s so easy to miss but if we’re more conscious of it, it’s less likely to miss us and we’re more capable of, we can enable ourselves to interrogate the things around us, question, get curious about it, more conscious about it, and then make different decisions if we chose to. To me that’s an aspect that’s liberating. If we can liberate ourselves from how we’ve been socialized in this society, how we’ve been socialized to relate to one another, the intelligence comes in when I’m conscious of how, why I’m relating to you in the way that I’m relating to you. What’s the information about you that’s coming before I even meet you? Before I even meet you. That happens all the time, everyday. So I’ve I’m conscious about that and we wrap that in the issue of racism or a time spirit then I can start to ask myself why is it that I say oh, Michelle, you’re really articulate, why’s it important for someone to say that to me when they’ve not said it to someone that looks like them? Because what’s come before you have met me is the belief that maybe I shouldn’t be as articulate as maybe I am. That’s the getting curious part and that’s, to me, the building of intelligence part in relationship with one another. The other thing that I’ll say about relationship that I learned through ORSC is I love this concept of the third entity because what becomes more important is our relationship and not me as an individual or you as an individual. What does the relationship want? If we ask that question from a systemic lens, from societies perspective, what does it want for us? What does it want from us?
KC – It’s a very different way of relating to the challenge and it makes me realize how much of this is systemic, when you mentioned the story you’re telling yourself about suburbia, that socialized storytelling. In my work I speak a lot about the power of storytelling and often we wait for our lives to happen in order to tell the story but actually the stories we tell ourselves now create our lives, they impact our reality. And so what stories are we just taking on because that’s what we’ve inherited or we’ve heard about in the news that actually just aren’t true and they’re shaping how we see the world.
MD – Exactly. It is so, so very true. So we can get frustrated. Nothing wrong with frustration because I think it propels us. Frustration and anger propels us to do something different, that’s the conflict, there’s a conflict living inside of me, that’s why I’m angry. There’s a conflict living inside of me, that’s why I’m frustrated. Well listen to that, get curious about that. And so many of us in our societies are frustrated and angry and maybe even like want to throw up our hands sometimes, but get curious about that and use that to propel you to find the access point to why you’re in conflict. Why are we in conflict? Why are you in conflict? I think of one of the governors here in the United States and all that’s happening to sort of like reduce the understanding of diversity and it’s impact on all the institutions or impacts on families or impacts on people. It’s like why. What is it about that diversity that makes you want to put a lid on it? So it’s like yes it’s irritating me, how can I use that irritation or that frustration to get curious about why this impact over an entire system, like you have the power, or you think you have the power to do this, it’s an illusion, that’s an illusion first and foremost. But you wanna use what you think you have in terms of power to impact an entire system and sort of color over the diverse aspects of all the individuals and people that are there. It’s frustrating, it’s angering, but let’s get curious as to why. Because that makes that individual or individuals so much smaller and us much more powerful, because that’s fear. Ultimately that’s fear that’s being acted out in the system. Relationship systems intelligence to me says we need to examine those voices that are doing that, like what are those voices better calling for that kind of behavior, then what are the other voices that call for a different kind of behavior and how can we get into conversation with one another about all of those voices, pare it down to its most skeletal parts and see what we’re all trying to achieve.
KC – You’re making me think of something that Ronne Ndlovu, one of our faculty members from South Africa said on a podcast, he said privilege is like wearing a comfy shoe, you don’t really realize that you’re wearing it. What you said there made me, it reminded me again of how easy it is to turn a blind eye when you’re the one wearing the comfy shoe and I think that’s part of the challenge as well. You mentioned the irritation but it’s also easier to turn away when you’re the one without the privilege in a situation.
MD – Yes. It’s so much easier to do that. I think I’ve told this story before but, I don’t know if it’s on this podcast, but until it’s personal to you, you probably don’t recognize the privileges that you have. And, how it becomes personal, how it can become personal to you is to get into relationship with someone that’s different from you and get to know them, get to understand them. See their perspective. You may not agree with everything and that’s ok, you don’t have to. But if I can see you as a person and not a concept I see you as an induvial with a beating heart, with love, with interest, with all of the things, you’re just a person. I see that and I don’t see this issue that wants to keep perpetuating in our society, it’s easier for me to make it personal, make what you’re striving for personal because it has meaning now. I put meaning to it because I started to be in relationship with you. The story I was about to tell was about like when my mom had to start using a wheelchair because she had esophagitis in her lungs and she was pretty mobile for some time but sometime she had bad days. So sometimes she’d be in a wheelchair and I remember getting her into the wheelchair and we were going into the store and how many people were like sort of passing in front of us, walking in front of us, just unconscious of we’ve just stepped in front of her, we’ve just stepped in front of her. Then I said, this is the consciousness piece, I’ve done that before. I’ve been that person that’s stepped in front of someone that walks a little slow. Or is walking with a cane. Or is in a wheelchair. I’ve done that but it became personal to me because it was my mom this time. Since that I no longer do that. I no longer do that, when someone’s walking slow they might look at me and say I’m sorry, like it’s ok, take your time.
KC – I definitely do that as well and it’s those moments that wake you up to the blind spots that can be so revealing and uncomfortable too. And I think we can also become aware of the places where we have privileges, almost, I think it’s about 12 years ago now, I volunteered in the Philippines for three months and I lived with a Filipino family, I was sharing a room with my Filipino counterpart and we were best friends for this time in the Philippines, we did everything together. But it was just so clear to me how differently we were treated, because I have white skin and she had darker skin and it was like doors would open in a way for me that they wouldn’t for her and yet in every other way we were so similar, like we spoke about the same things, we laughed about the same things, and I wonder like all the places before that I hadn’t noticed it, now I’m sort of directly there with my best friend but before that maybe I hadn’t noticed where doors had opened or… you know, things had happened for me perhaps easier than they had for other people and I think it’s important that we note too, where we do have the privilege, because maybe we can help other people to have a voice where they might otherwise not be able to speak up.
MD – Exactly. And I love that story, Katie, because what it points me back to is organizations really doing their work instead of putting window dressing on, examine the places in which you’ve been not aware of your privilege and just moving along and then when has that shifted for you? When have you become more aware? My guess is that most people would say I don’t think I have yet, or maybe it was George Floyd and if that was the case, how did it become personal to you? Because it’s the person first, it’s then getting in a conversation with the we parts of our relationships with others and then looking at the systemic impact of that. If a collection of individuals in an organization began to do that work, not complete the work, but began to do the work where do I have privilege? Where have I not seen what privilege I have. How have I been impacted personally by them? That to me is a shift. We can start to build a personal awareness of the impact. And you say, you make a conscious choice to say I cannot do that anymore. It no longer is a thing that fits who I’m becoming and this is where coaching is so important, it no longer fits who I am. You have individuals within an organization doing that kind of work, that’s building it into the bones of the organizations and that’s why I say if I or someone else looks like me leaves as the chief director diversity officer, it’s still in there because you’ve impacted the people in such a way they now are saying this is no longer acceptable, we have to do something different. We have to structure things differently. And it no longer is reliant upon one individual that’s gotta do that.
KC – I think you’re talking too as well how complex this is and why we all have to do our own work because I think it’s very easy sometimes to hide behind, you know, a place where we have been discriminated against, like I’ve been discriminated because I’m a woman, but them sometimes we can hide behind that as, well I’ve experienced it too but it doesn’t mean we don’t have privilege and we haven’t, you know, been blind to other areas in our life as well, and I think it’s up to all of us to wake up to those blind spots, we all have privilege in different ways-
MD – Exactly.
KC – But I think it’s very easy sometimes to have that almost argument around well I’ve had it worse than you, and then it doesn’t really get us anywhere. Have you noticed that yourself?
MD – Yeah! And I’ve been part of the person that argues that, to be completely honest! We all do have privilege and that privilege impacts, I think, others in a variety of ways, just like when I gave the example of my mom. I don’t know what the impact was on the person if I’m rushing in front of them, I don’t know what that impact is, but if I just played with the idea that I’m impacting that person negatively it’s gonna change my behavior. And for me there’s a, not a comparison of harms but a recognition. I think there’s a need to recognize because if you don’t recognize the voices of the powerfully oppressed, the powerfully oppressed, if you don’t recognize those voices, not to compare but to recognize and honor that you push those voices again to the margin. There’s a distinction, I think, in being discriminated against, experiencing prejudice, and being systemically oppressed. There is a difference. That difference is laws specifically and intentionally designed to keep you oppressed. Structures designed intentionally to keep you oppressed. Keep you out of society. To keep you from having dreams fulfilled for yourself and your family. Actions that make you less than human but those actions are in the form of laws and policies. There’s a difference between that and experiencing discrimination and prejudice.
KC – That’s a really important point, thank you for landing that. And it makes me wonder, in terms of where we go from here because I think there’s sometimes a sense from organizations at least that oh, we’ve done the work now, let’s move on to other things and it’s that rushed pace that we mentioned. But from this place it sounds like there’s still so much work to be done and actually, it sounds like people haven’t even felt like they’ve been recognized in their hurt, in their pain, in their grief, and do you think there needs to be some kind of collective apology? I don’t know but I’m just wondering where we go from here to start really doing the work.
MD – I love that question. There might be some cases where apology is desired or needed and there might be others where that’s rejected because I don’t feel the sincerity of that apology. And maybe more of what’s wanted is digging in and really, really doing what’s necessary to change structures, structure by structure by structure. System, by system, by system. Company, by company, by company. To dig in, to not run away from it. One of the things that Arnie Mendel says to sitting in the fire, which I really appreciate, is you can flip, you can flip the power structures, you know, and maybe it’s been the oppressed now, they now have the power. The system won’t change because the people have not yet changed themselves. We’re just gonna have a different version of oppression with different people at the bottom and different people at the top. That really resonated with me because it’s all of them have voices, if we’re not bringing all of those voices together then we’re not hearing the real issue, so where do we go from here is, I think, digging in and not just putting window dressing on your website or hiring a chief diversity officer, those are steps but it’s not digging in. It’s not digging in to how we got here in the first place. It’s not us saying no to this, we don’t want this anymore, this is not how we want to engage in our world anymore. It's the actions that have us doing that that I think is where true, a true manifestation of change can start to occur. And it’s going to take time because there’s a lot of hearts and minds to change. This may have been in that book but I believed it long before that, laws and policies cannot make systemic equity issues just go away. They just hide. They just hide and manifest differently. The people who are making those laws and policies need to make the choice to change so where do we go from here is making a choice to change and finding someone that can help you do that, finding someone that can coach you through, digging in, getting really, getting to the gritty truth of it all, examining no matter how uncomfortable it is your part to play in all of this and how you want to play it differently, because when you start to do that as a collective that’s when things start to shift.
KC – This is such a powerful conversation. I feel like you should be a motivational speaker because I’m feeling so motivated, actually, to fight for something that actually I really care about but I think in some ways I’ve been perhaps unconscious too or rushing through. And I imagine a call to action to everyone listening, we have thousands of listeners from all over the world, is to be more conscious to this. Because I think this is something that matters to all of us as systems workers and it can so easily get pushed to the side, relationship seems to be the first thing to go when we become task orientated.
MD – Yeah, and it’s, relationships are vulnerable. Relationships require risk, it requires exposure and we don’t normally like doing that kind of thing.
KC - No, we don’t.
MD – We don’t tend to do that. But if you are, if you wanna step into that, if you wanna be bold and brave and step into that find someone else that’s bold and brave and another person that’s bold and brave and you all can start to build, whomever those bold and brave people that are willing to really get vulnerable and have the risk within the relationship and trust that the relationship will carry you through, that is when you begin to build momentum within these systems, within the organizations. Because organizations are pockets of people that have the ability to impact the system as a collective. You just start building, building those bold, brace people so that they can say no more. No more. We do not want this anymore. I am a part of the problem but I am also part of the solution.
KC – I think that’s a call to action for all of us. Thank you so much Michelle, and this is gonna be sending ripples out into the world, to all of our wonderful world workers out there, so hugely appreciate all that you’re doing and all that you’re sharing with us today-
MD – Thank you!
KC – and is there any final thoughts you want to leave our listeners with before we close?
MD – I just said a moment ago, just trust the relationship. Build, build that and just trust it, it will carry you through. The power of the third entity in the relationship, there’s can help create more intelligence than a lot of people have, I just wanna make this contagious, I wanna make it contagious, that’s what I’d end with.
[Music outro begins 34:37]
KC – I’m with you on that Michelle. Thank you so much and take care. A huge thanks again to Michelle Davis for that really insightful conversation. Here are my key takeaways. When we move fast our strategies may stay surface level, never become integrated into the bones of the organization. Whereas if we take the time to really integrate systemic equity within an organization it cannot be extricated if a person leaves or a procedure changes because it is infused within a culture of the organization. Until it’s personal for us it can be hard to understand the privilege we have. One way we can make it more personal is by getting into relationship. By being in relationship we make it personal, we have skin in the game, and we now start to ask where do I have privilege and why have I not seen that I have privilege? What is the impact? How can we sit in the fire and really do the work that needs to happen? The system will not change unless the people themselves have changed. So as opposed to simply flipping the power structure how can we dig in so that we really understand how we got here, so that a true manifestation of change can start to occur. Laws and policies cannot make systemic inequalities go away – it’s the people that need to make the choice to change. Thank you for listening to the Relationship Matters podcast. If you enjoyed this episode please share it with your colleagues and friends so that we can continue to spread these ideas across the globe, and if you haven’t already, do subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to make sure you never miss an episode. And for more information on the ORSC courses please visit CRRGlobal.com. For over 20 years, CRR Global has accompanied leaders, teams, and practitioners on their journey to stronger relationships by focusing on the relationship itself, not only the individuals occupying it. This leads to a community of changemakers around the world. Supported by a global network of Faculty and Partners, we connect, inspire, and equip change agents to shift systems, one relationship at a time. We believe Relationship Matters from humanity to nature to the larger whole.
[Music outro 36:58 – end]