Conversations on Cancer Ep.1 - Right Relationship with Life-Threatening Illness

Conversations on Cancer is a 6-part mini-series on the Relationship Matters podcast focusing on finding Right Relationship with life-threatening illness. Across the 6 episodes, Faith Fuller and Katie Churchman talk with survivors & caregivers from around the world about their relationship with life-threatening illness. In this episode, Katie talks with Faith Fuller about her own journey with cancer. How can we be in Right Relationship with life-threatening illness? 

Faith Fuller is co-founder of CRR Global.  She was diagnosed with stage 4 Uterine Cancer in September 2021 and is currently in remission. In true Faith fashion, she wants to create a global conversation about the cancer curveball that impacts so many of our lives. 

Transcript

Key 

KC – Katie Churchman 

FF – Faith Fuller 

[Musical intro 00:00 – 02:16] 

FF – Welcome to Conversations on Cancer. My name is Faith Fuller and I’m one of the founders of CRR Global, along with Marita Frijon. The following is a season of podcasts with different cancer survivors about creating right relationship with a life threatening illness. We want to acknowledge right off the bat that this topic can naturally bring up a wide variety of feelings for all of us. For this reason we want to give a trigger warning about the content of these podcasts before you continue. We’re going to be presenting interviews with cancer survivors or their caretakers and each podcast is a very personal story about one journey with a life threatening illness. Everyone’s story is different and the speaker’s experience may be very dissimilar to any health journey of your own. In the spirit of deep democracy, please honour this person’s experience and also honour your own. Every voice is one voice of the system. Honour what right relationship with illness means to you. Medical disclaimer: these podcasts are meant to share the personal stories of cancer survivors. The stories are not intended to provide medical advice of any kind. Any questions regarding a user’s personal medical condition or their medical care should be directed to their medical care physician. Thank you. 

KC – In this episode I’m talking with Faith Fuller about her own journey with cancer. Faith was diagnosed with stage four uterine cancer in September 2021 and is currently in remission. In true Faith fashion, Faith wants to create a global conversation about the cancer curveball that impacts so many of our lives. How can we be in right relationship with life threatening illness? My name is Katie Churchman and you’re listening to Conversations on Cancer. 

FF – Hi everybody! Thank you for joining me today. I notice as I get ready to talk about my own personal health journey, I’m a little nervous Katie! Certainly this is a deeply personal topic but I’m actually excited to find a way to talk about it with people and hopefully promote a way to create conversation about life threatening illnesses and how to create right relationship with a life threatening illness. So, I’m thinking that  I should probably start with ok, people are wondering well what exactly is your health journey? So let me tell people about that, first of all. So last fall I began to get a little bit of symptoms, pretty innocuous ones, but they sent me to the doctor and then all fall, basically, I went through an incredibly tumultuous path of testing, diagnosis, more testing, re-diagnosing, wrong diagnosis, right diagnosis, it was a little bit like body surfing the Colorado river, frankly. But then finally in November I was given the correct diagnosis that I have endometrial cancer which many people would call uterine cancer. And what I want you to know is I’ve just finished my final chemo for treatment of that particular cancer, and my prognosis is indetermined, and in a way that’s been one of the most powerful ways about it, it’s that I could live another 25 years or I could not and some of the most powerful work that you do when you have a life threatening illness is come to terms with the fact, first of all, that although we’re all dying we have no idea when that’s going to happen and you don’t when you have cancer either. But it’s a little more vividly in your face when you get a life threatening illness. But right now I am in remission, although I have continuing treatment to go, I am learning an enormous amount, I think in some ways it’s been one of the most profound journeys of my life and I think what I want the listeners to know… let me back up for a moment. Many of you out there have a deep relationship with me. Maybe we’ve taught together, maybe I taught one of your courses, many of us have touched each other’s lives. So sometimes people when I give them this news, feel a moment of shock. And it’s, of course, there is a moment of shock. But what I do want you to know is that in true Faith fashion, my way of dealing with the cancer is to find a way to bring it onto the path of ORSC and that part has been so exciting for me. So yes, I’m ill. Yes, there’s a profound spiritual journey and yes, ORSC has a lot to do with it! And that part is very exciting for me to share. And I think the last piece I want you to know is please know, in the most profound sense, I am deeply well. And what I mean is that my sense of relationship with myself, my body, the people I love, is present, deep, meaningful and profound. So I am experiencing a kind of healthiness of spirit that’s beyond what’s happening in my body and that’s part of what I hope our interviews will provide for you, is seeing people wrestling with a profound incidence, health incidence, in their life and deriving meaning from that. So, this podcast and the others will be all about what is right relationship even mean when you’re seriously ill? And there isn’t gonna be an easy answer but just the question itself, I hope, will be provocative for all. So Katie, there was one last piece I wanted to add on too for the sake of anybody out there who might be feeling just a little bit of a sense of shock at oh my god, you know, Faith has cancer. And it’s something that actually I do with people when I’m telling them about my cancer and they’re face to face with me. So usually these are close friends or, you know, intimates, family or something, and I always see when I tell them, you know, when they see I have a bald head that you can’t see and I always tell them, I tend to very dramatically whip off my hat so they can see the bald head after I’ve given them the information and then what I usually do is I lean forward and say cmon, cmon, cmon, cmon over here and rub my fuzzy head. And it always makes people laugh and they’re a little bit shocked but when people are in person and I’m laughing like you know saying you have to come over and rub my head, I mean my punk self that is totally rocking this bald head, I’ve gotta tell you, I’ve got a beautiful bald head, I’m so sorry you can’t see it. But I say cmon up here, I want you to imagine I’m asking you to come over and rub my fuzzy head, and there’s something about rubbing that fuzzy head that gets everybody over the edge of I’m still Faith and we can talk about it. 

KC – I love it. True Faith fashion, I think that’s the statement for this whole series of podcasts. 

FF – Yeah, you know, it’s hard to believe this but sometimes cancer can be funny. And I hope that the whole range of the experience is going to come across in these podcasts. 

KC – I think we’ll probably laugh or cry and we’ll be everything in between and I think that’s part of the experience, part of the journey and part of what we’re trying to share. 

FF – Absolutely, absolutely. So there were a couple other reasons why I wanted to create podcasts around this with you and some of it was our conversations together, you and me Katie, about the fact that people don’t walk about this stuff, you know? 

KC – No. 

FF – It used to be that sex was taboo and now you can talk about anything to do with sex, you know, but talking about death is still incredibly edgy for people. You know, from my view, where I am right now, it’s a little bit absurd, I think they say the only thing that’s guaranteed is death and taxes, but, you know, some people can avoid taxes. But you cannot avoid death. And yet we all mostly live our lives as if that’s not happening and I understand why, but there, I had somebody tell me, you know, there’s no map. When someone gets a diagnosis or someone you love gets a life threatening diagnosis, there isn’t a map for how to be. And I really felt like for god’s sake, one of the things I can do, given my illness, is create a forum for us to be able to be in a right relationship with each other and talk about it. Let’s talk about it! We’re all going to die! Let’s talk about it! Sooner or later someone we love will become ill or we’re going to become ill. It’s natural. It’s part of what it is to be human. So wouldn’t it be great if we could keep each other company by talking about it? So this is not going to be a set of podcasts with answers or advice, it’s going to be a set of stories that people share about their experience and what they’ve learned about being ill. And everybody, this is relevant for everybody. I want to tell a story. Just before I went into chemo I, you know, I knew that I wanted to shave my head because for me the idea of watching my hair fall out was icky. I didn’t want to do that. So, my usual hairdresser was out of town and I just thought well how hard is it to shave a head, right? So I just went down to a local salon, I’d called them and said can somebody shave my head? Here’s why, I’m going into chemo. And when I got down there, first of all there was a welcoming committee of three older women who sort of came out and checked in with me, how was I doing, it was very intimate and they were concerned for me but also, it was a moment of closeness. And then I met my hairdresser, the person who was going to shave my head, I’ll call her Sally. And Sally worked with me, she said, you know, have you ever had your head shaved before and I said no but I have a punk self that kind of wants to see what my head looks like and she said great, but I’ll take it down slow so that you can adjust. And then at one point she said, as she was shaving me, you see that person who’s cutting hair behind me, you can see her in the mirror, she’s a friend of mine and six years ago she started getting these awful stomach pains and she wasn’t going to the doctor so I bundled her into my car and I dragged her down to my doctor and turned out she had cervical cancer. And she’s been treated, she’s well now, but you know I just want you to know that she had that experience. And she also said to me, she said I think we should take a before and after shot of your head. So, something that I keep and I show people is my before picture with my more usual, short, but with lots of hair, and I have Sally right there next to me in the picture and then there’s an after picture of me with my shiny bald head with sally there with me in the picture, and that picture is precious to me as a sign of the journey. But, something I said to her at the time is you know Sally, you never know what the stories are in a room. Here’s a group of strangers, never met any of you, and yet two of us here are having a cancer experience and you never know what’s happening in a room. And her eyes filled up and she said I don’t usually share this because I worry it’s unprofessional but three years ago I got a diagnosis of malignant pulmonary hypertension and she said they, I nearly died, but they had me on the right medication but this may not always be the correct medication and when the medication stops working I’m going to have to get a double lung transplant. So, her eyes filled with tears and mine filled with tears and we just looked at each other, you know, at some point just took each other’s hands and again, just had that sense, you have no idea what journey, medical journeys or their loved ones are on medical journeys, in any room you walk into it’s there. But not always talked about. And one of the profound moments of intimacy for me was finding the commonality in that human journey of illness, possible death, how very profoundly intimate it was to share that. Even with a group of strangers. So that was a big motivation for me saying let’s start a podcast that opens up the topic. 

KC – True Faith fashion to befriend everyone at the hair salon. And I haven’t told you this but after you told me that story for the first time, it was the next day, my cleaner came round and I said hi, how are you and then just rushed off in the other direction because I was so busy, and then I stopped and I thought no, I haven’t properly seen that person, I haven’t checked in, and so I took a moment and said how are you really? Sorry. And it turns out her father in law had just died of cancer. I nearly missed it. You just never know, do you, what stories are walking around you. And actually that everyone there is a human having their own experience and it’s not always easy. 

FF – Yes. 

KC – How we can lean in sometimes to hold them in that. We can’t fix it but we can hold them in it and see them in that moment. 

FF – Yes, you know, I don’t think somebody can tell you my father just died of cancer or even tell you, you know, my brother died of cancer 15 years ago. You know it’s a moment of intimacy. It’s a moment of right relationship. Being present with that person in a very deep, painful, powerful, profound experience. So absolutely, you know, I think it would be great. I love Katie that you showed us how are you really. Because that, I remember my mother telling me how are you is a greeting, not an invitation, don’t tell your friends about your indigestion!

KC – It’s so true! Well I heard your story the day before and I’d said to myself I want to be more Faith. It was that moment of just I could have walked on by and I could have got on with my busyness, and actually how much we have in common as human beings and the fact that we all die is something that we’re all in alignment with because we’re all gonna die and everyone’s probably experienced some kind of cancer, whether it’s their own or a family member or a friend or a friend’s friend. It’s there. It’s present. And yet, to your point, it’s not in the conversation all that much. 

FF – Yes. Well, I just want to say, this could be any kind of life threatening illness for anybody. So, most of the conversations will be cancer survivors but, you know, it could be anything. So welcome. You may be doing this because you have an illness, because someone you love has an illness, or because you just suddenly realized wow, I’m human and I’m walking this path. And sometimes I tell people, we’re all in queue, I know that may sound morbid but for me it isn’t in that we all move forward as we age, in that queue, towards some of the end phases of our life. And I just tell people I’m a little precocious. 

KC – That’s brilliant. 

FF – I’ve always been precocious. And also it’s such a treasure chest. I look forward to telling more stories of a treasure chest of things available to you when you are facing something major in your life. 

KC – And if you’re not, this podcast might also be for you as well. I’m not dealing with a life threatening illness. Both of my parents over the last couple of years have, and also I’m the voice of I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what question to ask, I don’t know what they need! I’m that voice on this podcast and it can be awkward and uncomfortable but it’s never as uncomfortable as the person going through it, so I think if we can lean into that discomfort as the friend, the family member, the partner, that in itself is a help and so I’m here to be the voice of that discomfort on the call and to hopefully help all of us to lean in a little more to these things in life that can hit us hard and can also unite us. 

FF – I love that Katie. Absolutely. One of the things I value is your ability to say ok, here’s my dilemma in this particular thing because I think it’s absolutely true. Facebook is full of posts on how do you talk to somebody who’s gotten cancer and the focus for these conversations is gonna be on right relationships because, what’s provocative for me is that there isn’t an answer. You know, so the ones that say you should do thiswhen your friend has gotten cancer diagnosis or never talk about yourself or never do… whatever it is. You know what, right relationship varies, moment to moment, person to person. Topic to topic. It’s never a fixed thing so part of, the first thing about being in right relationship with either somebody who’s ill or you’re ill is what’s needed in that moment? And often the best way into designing an alliance with somebody who is ill or with your illness is start with well what in the world is my designed alliance with this person? Or with this illness? Because if there was one most profound piece of experience for me on this journey it’s the experience of learning how to go into relationship with my diagnosis. And what I mean by that is cancer isn’t something floating around outside of you. Cancer is in you, is a part of you, and like anything else in your life it needs to be, it needs a relationship. You need to be able to go into relationship with it if you’re going to garner any wealth, learning, opportunity from it. What that relationship looks like is going to vary by person to person. I think about my brother, my brother was dying of a terminal end-stage heart disease. My brother’s relationship with death was do not go gentle into that good night. My brother fought with his diagnosis, denied his diagnosis, refused to deal with any kind of planning for his death which left his family in a complete mess after he died. He was going to wrestle death to the last possible minute and I think for many of us it was like surely he should have a quote unquote ‘enlightened’ death, but that was BS, that’s my brother’s way, my brother’s way was wrestle with that sucker right down to the last day. And I’ve known many parents that are fiercely hungry and fighting for the sake of being with their children for as long as possible and that’s what right relationship means to them in terms of authentic, genuine presence with an entity. So regardless of the nature of how you feel about that diagnosis, be honest, put that cancer, that heart illness, put it out front, fight with it if that’s what’s there. Be curious about it if that’s what’s there. For a long time I was kind of clueless, cancer wouldn’t talk to me so I would talk to it, I would say I don’t know anything about you, I don’t know why you’re here, talk to me! And it took time of showing up, showing up before cancer had anything to say back, and finally it began to sort of wake up too talk to me and some of the things it said was that it was very confused, it didn’t know what it was or where it was going or why it was there. And you will find your own way if you can be honest with what is there for you including just feeling like I want nothing to do with you, start with honesty and talk to your illness about where you are, what you want, how you feel, give it chance over time to answer you. You can’t create a one way relationship with anything, including your illness. But if you don’t start to open up to ask in a very genuine way, could be I wanna stab you to death and eradicate you from my body and never have to deal with you again, ok – that’s honest. Start there. So start with creating a relationship by talking to your illness. And then for me you need to do the same thing with treatment. I was going to chemo and oh my god, you know, all the drama around chemo. Stuff we’ve heard, stuff we’re afraid of, horror stories, and the sort of feeling that you’re going through this medical machine that’s going to eat you. My route out of that was to research my chemo. Turns out that one of my chemos is based on what I would call plant medicine of all things, based on the yew tree. And the yew tree is one of the Celtic sacred trees, goes back to the dawn of time that it was a sacred object for them. And I happen to have two yew trees outside my window so I got into my chemo by researching the yew tree and by cutting pieces of yew and putting them on my personal shrine and I made an offering to my yew tree, I gave it my very best bourbon when I was going into chemo and I talked to it, and boy it talked to me. The intensity of things I experience going through chemo as a result of that relationship were something. And then the opposite part of my chemo was platinum based, of all things, platinum! And I researched platinum which as some of you may know is born from the death of supernovas, literally, it takes a supernova to create platinum in the universe. So I had supernova on the one hand and I had plant medicine on the other and between the two of them I really had a set of allies here. And take the time to find your way into relationship with your treatment so it can be an ally rather than an enemy. So let me pause there, I could talk all day, but let me pause. Thoughts, questions, Katie? 

KC – It’s fascinating and it’s such an interesting way of framing it because I think so often the idea of chemo, you hear that word and you think toxic. Oh gosh. And even that in itself, I wonder what that narrative does for someone going through that. It’s not that it’s wrong it’s just a hard narrative to live and you chose to create a different narrative for yourself that feels a lot more digestible, would you say? 

FF – Yeah. And you know I just wanna say, that doesn’t mean that chemo isn’t an absolute bitch because it is. You’re quite right. It is toxic. But there are so many things that we encounter in our lives that are toxic. And as ORSCers we ought to know how to be with what’s toxic. It’s like how do we want to be with that thing that is toxic? Especially when you know it’s an opportunity, a doorway, to transformation. So don’t think for a moment I didn’t drag myself through some of the difficult chemo times. What I want to do it again, oh my god no. But if you can bring yourself, and frankly, even the literature also shows that very ill patients who are able to be positive about their treatment have a better outcome by being positive about their treatment, it doesn’t mean all whoopee, you know, isn’t this great. Being positive about your treatment means finding something transformative in it for you. And it is possible to do that but it may not be possible for you immediately if you are angry or in denial, just be where you are because that’s what’s authentic. But it does shift and change and when you are able to create a relationship to the allies that have been given to you, work with your diagnosis and see what they have to offer you, even when it isn’t easy. 

KC – I think this is what I think is the most amazing thing about you Faith, is that you come here and you say… you do it your way. And I think that’s why My Way by Frank Sinatra is the most played song at funerals, at least that’s my assumption because it’s been played at most of the funerals I’ve been at. But you’re not here saying you should be enlightened and meditating and embracing it. You’re saying if you want to kick and scream, kick and scream! Love it. Be authentic yourself in your experience because it’s hard. 

FF – You know I just gotta tell you Katie, that’s actually, when my brother died my sister in law and my nieces, you know, went through a whole house cleaning that you often do when somebody dies and so they were cleaning a whole house up and throwing stuff out and getting rid of the medical equipment but as they did it they were blasting on a continuous loop the Sinatra song I Did It My Waybecause it was so perfect for my brother, he did it his way. He really did. And there isn’t a right way to die, you know. And also, it’s not that I haven’t had periods of fury or incredible grief or just irritation or whatever. Right relationship is being with the weather of the moment around your illness. And it’s going to change like weather. There isn’t one way. I think I have a fear that people will think oh my god, I am so, somehow, ORSC-ified that even my diagnosis can be brought under the path of relationship, that the only way to right relationship is falling down 13 times and getting up 14 so welcome all of it as guests to your boarding house, as I think Rumi would have said. But every single one has something to teach you. I want to tell a difficult story and that was after my second chemo I discovered, I went through a phase of incredible anger and it wasn’t just, it wasn’t so much anger, it was anger at specific people. And it wasn’t just any kind of anger, it was a kind of malicious anger, it was a self that knew all of the most cutting things that I could possibly say to different people that I was close too. To really nail them. And that part of me was a little bit gleeful, very skillful by the way, boy, that part really knew what to say. And I had an image of that aspect of myself, it was a little, a full sized, human sized rat like creature with glowing red eyes in the back of a dark room. And I just had to sit with that entity. That was a part of me, that rage and a nastiness. And I think of myself as being ‘ ooh skillful, I’m right relationship, I’m a founder of CRR Global’ – I have a large, rat-like malicious creature that is a part of me. That’s part that I didn’t want to see but the pressure of needing to know, knowing that you may be on potentially limited time and you’re in a right relationship with someone will force whatever hasn’t been worked with to come to the surface. I had to live with that creature for weeks and I couldn’t have any conversation, it was just like two people staring at each other in a room and it couldn’t budge until I wrote down every single thing that that self wanted to say in a book, I wrote down, dictated to me it wanted to say until it had a voice, that way. I wasn’t going to share my material with the people that I loved, I wasn’t going to do that, I wasn’t going to cause that kind of damage, that wasn’t how I wanted to be with that entity. But it did need to speak and I needed to write it down and burn the results. And it wasn’t till it spoke through that journal that it could shift. And of course what it shifted too for me, might be different for you, was grief, and not just grief but disappointed dreams. All the things that I think I always thought of this relationship or that relationship, well, just fix it in the future … there’s always the future. But if there wasn’t gonna be a future, what then? And I may have a long and extensive future but I had to look at the fact that I might not and I had so many things I would be sad about and disappointed in and things that needed working with. So I’m not saying, you know, this was a direct result of my second experience in chemo. Chemo was a rough ride and it’s going to drag you, it’s shamanic. Think of it as being shamanic, it is an entity you invite into your body and you cannot out muscle it, you can only surrender and go for the ride. When I surrendered it dragged me to difficult places, not always, I also had wonderful ones, but it was a chemical. By sitting with that entity I was able to be more honest about having that entity, working with that entity. Recognizing its humanness and also find a way to ground out that energy without acting it out, you know, with the people that I love. So you’ve gotta go with what you got. 

KC – You’ve gotta go with what you’ve got, that might be a bumper sticker. Be like the mantra for this whole series. But thank you Faith for being vulnerable about that because I’m sure there are so many parts of self beyond life threatening illness that people can’t admit and you just shared that, that part of yourself, in spite of all this relationship work you do as one of the co-founders of CRR Global, you still have that because you’re human. 

FF – Oh yeah. You know, I talk about deep democracy, I can truly recognize that I have within me the enlightenment of the Buddha, genuinely I have that, that’s a legitimate part of me, but I also have the, frankly, the homicidal maniac in me. And the more range you’ve got the better you can empathize with anybody and certainly with your clients, with your friends, with your family. So, none of these parts are evil. They’re all informative. 

KC – Is it the more range you’ve got or the more range you’re aware of. 

FF – That’s a great question. I would say probably both. You know, when I was younger I had as much range but I would say, I sort of think that my container for emotion was smaller when I was younger. I hadn’t stretched it out. So if I say lost my temper, it was easier for me to lose my temper because my container was small and then it would blow my action container open and I would act it out. But as I worked with myself and my capacity, my spiritual warriorship to hold more and more intensity without having to be grounded out by acting out, it got bigger. So I think there’s an awareness component. I don’t know about all the parts of myself but once I have that awareness do I have to ground it all out and act it all out? And I’ve gotten better, I think, about both. What do you think? 

KC – I don’t know, I think I’m definitely still learning about parts of myself and different parts show up in different chapters. And I have a feeling maybe there’s infinite different bits inside of me and it’s like a Russian doll, you just jeep opening the next layer. And I’m sure something like what you’re going through opens up another layer, whether you want to see it or not. 

FF – Wow, I actually love that because you’ve just opened a door. I do believe, Katie, that we’re infinte in terms of what we can host in our hearts and minds. In fact I think the further we evolve the more we can identify with almost anything, that’s the lands work aspect of the ability to step into anybody’s land. Now we also grow in the spiritual warrioriship of not having to act out that empathy that we’re able to experience. But I believe on the most profound level that what human beings are are being that allow, that can grow to hold anything and to bring compassion to that sooner or later. To step into it, to see it as human, to see it as universal. And to grow as a result of that empathy. So, you know, one thing that is absolutely true is that the fast road to enlightenment, you want to become enlightened? Get a major illness. It’s like, it’s a real road, you know, it’s gonna rub your nose in every single thing that isn’t finished in your life. And you can either be terrified and panic struck about that which sometimes I am or we are, but it also is an opportunity to open up to it as a profound learning journey because it’s also that. And it’s gonna change day to day. 

KC – That’s an amazing way at, I guess looking at any change. 

FF – Yeah and I am learning a lot. And I do believe that what I want to encourage people to do is bring your caretaking of someone who is ill, if you’re a caretaker, bring it onto the path of ORSC. Marita and I design every-freaking-day about what her needs are and what mine are. You think I’m joking, I’m not. Every single day we design either Marita’s needs for the day or my needs for the day, how we need to be this day with what’s going on, either with my illness or her work schedule and my usually her work schedule combined with my illness, so every single day, you know, you need to design. You need to talk to your cancer or your heart disease. You want to talk to your treatment like you talk to your doctor. And talk about that, I mean, you’ve got new relationships with doctors and nurses and infusers and, you know, I mean it’s a whole new show of systems and you can bring all of your systems knowledge and understanding to bare, with your family by the way and oh, I have one more story I want to tell because this was contributed to me by Marita. You gotta be involved in so many new systems or in major edges that can be crossed say by your family, your systems are going to change. And Marita told me a great story. In her, when she goes to get physical adjustments for her PT, in the PT room there’s a wall hanging. There’s a picture of a mountain that her PT guy has and people climbing that mountain and at the bottom there’s a little thing that says something like ‘to attain wisdom climb your own mountain’. So every time she went for an adjustment she saw this thing and thought about it and she brought it to me and shared it with me, and what we realized is cancer is a journey, or any life threatening illness that involves everybody in your life, it’s going to involve them. So one of the things you need to know is who’s mountain are you climbing? So, for me I have to climb the mountain of my illness, having a cancer. Nobody can climb that mountain for me. And for Marita she has to climb a mountain of having a beloved having a life threatening illness. And I can’t climb that mountain for her. Much of the strugglers for me is dealing like oh my god, I don’t want my daughter, my sister, my partner, you know, my friends to have to experience what I’m going through. It hurts me that it hurts them. But that’s there mountain to climb, their karma. They will learn from it, are learning from it, in the same way they can’t climb mine. So if you are a caretaker or someone with cancer, it’s really helpful to ask yourself who’s mountain is this to climb because you can’t do it for the people that you love and they can’t do it for you, but you can acknowledge their journey, their mountain and what their mountain is gives a little bit of distance. So climb your own mountain and see what that journey might bring you.

KC – Thank you Faith. 

FF – So thank you everybody and more to come. 

KC – More to come, watch this space.

[Music outro begins 35:13] 

FF – Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Conversations on Cancer. We hope you’re finding these talks as meaningful as we do and, because every individual is unique, we know that every cancer journey is different. These podcasts may or may not reflect your own experience. We encourage you to honor whatever your own journey is with illness in your life.